Nano Bubble Injection

[Aquattro]

Sure, bubbles will work as you propose. Waste water treatment uses the exact method in aeration tanks. However, I wouldn't be interested in making my entire tank into a skimmer. I have a skimmer that performs that function already. Most hobbyists go insane now with any microbubbles in the tank, adding them on purpose isn't going to sell well.

Also, cost vs return is probably very high. I can't see a huge benefit to this over a high end skimmer. Salt creep would be an issue. I have enough of that now with surface agitation.

I just don't see this becoming mainstream for hobbyist tanks. It's just not something I would even consider.

[soapy]

I am glad to see you are beginning to warm up to the idea. Agreed, even if this thing makes sense at some point for a display it would be awhile before it is ready for primetime. Maybe never.

These guys may want to turn their entire tank into a skimmer a few hours a day:
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2002/1/aafeature Those are butt ugly tanks anyway.

I don't see cost being a huge problem since you would be generating bubbles with the same technology as a skimmer? A return pump fed air by a limewood airstone and air pump makes a ton of small bubbles. That brings up the question of optimal bubble size, which could greatly affect cost.

[Aquattro]

Originally Posted by soapy

I am glad to see you are beginning to warm up to the idea.

No, I agreed the technology worked well in waste water treatment. I think this, for tanks, is dumb. There's a difference

Fun Fact. Don't ever fall into the aeration tank at a sewage treatment plant. You will sink to the bottom and drown. Too much air to float, not enough to breath.

[MitchM]

Reef Central had a tank of the month, 8 years ago, that used intermittent air injection.
Pic and diagram of the setup is about half way down the page.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-04/totm/index.php

I'm not crazy about the idea if you run air injection 24/7, intermittent probably wouldn't hurt anything as long as you had strong enough flow otherwise to dislodge the bubbles from the corals and live rock.

.

[soapy]

Originally Posted by MitchM

Reef Central had a tank of the month, 8 years ago, that used intermittent air injection.
Pic and diagram of the setup is about half way down the page.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-04/totm/index.php

I'm not crazy about the idea if you run air injection 24/7, intermittent probably wouldn't hurt anything as long as you had strong enough flow otherwise to dislodge the bubbles from the corals and live rock.

.

Hey thanks Mitch, great link. Interesting setup on that tank.

I agree running 24/7 would not be good. Other places I've read that guys are running for a couple hours in the evening. I see that TOTM guy does 1 minute bursts every 3 hours. I was thinking it might be good for 1/2 hour or an hour twice a day, low tide twice a day like on a reef?

In my short tests Ive found that the bubbles don't really stick to the coral flesh or the rocks unless there is an overhang that can trap it. Algae on the other hand gets lots of bubbles caught up.

[soapy]

Here is a couple of shots from todays tests. After shutting down the air I waited
five minutes which was overkill really the bubbles clear pretty fast. Trapped bubbles take longer to dissolve but I haven't waited to time that yet.

[Jordon]

I was actually reading this shortly before you posted!

Gimmicky would be if they were selling something, which it doesn't appear that they are at this time. So what would be in it for them exactly?

I think this is something I would try at night only, but would definitely wait for Mike's take on it when he posts his articles @ RB. I have many other experimental things on my list to try first.

This is what makes the hobby exciting; Finding interesting ways to make something "better" Yes, yes, maybe not visually pleasing, but at 3am, i'm not exactly looking at my tank, and it if improves health or has other positive effects, why not?

The whole thing here I think is will this actually work better than a skimmer, or what other effects does it have versus one? Also if there are pros to run this versus a skimmer, is the extra cleanup (possibly from salt creep) and other factors worth it?

soapy, do you have the resources to set up two small tanks to test this theory? i.e.: identical livestock, equipment, rock, sand and water conditions, with only that one variable changed? If so, that would be amaze-balls.

[soapy]

Originally Posted by JDH

I was actually reading this shortly before you posted!

Gimmicky would be if they were selling something, which it doesn't appear that they are at this time. So what would be in it for them exactly?

I think this is something I would try at night only, but would definitely wait for Mike's take on it when he posts his articles @ RB. I have many other experimental things on my list to try first.

This is what makes the hobby exciting; Finding interesting ways to make something "better" Yes, yes, maybe not visually pleasing, but at 3am, i'm not exactly looking at my tank, and it if improves health or has other positive effects, why not?

The whole thing here I think is will this actually work better than a skimmer, or what other effects does it have versus one? Also if there are pros to run this versus a skimmer, is the extra cleanup (possibly from salt creep) and other factors worth it?

soapy, do you have the resources to set up two small tanks to test this theory? i.e.: identical livestock, equipment, rock, sand and water conditions, with only that one variable changed? If so, that would be amaze-balls.

A comparison test like that would be a cool idea. Or even just a tank to test coral frags. Some species are going to hate this but some might thrive with it. I already know of one cyphastrea that hates the bubbles and an acro that shed a slime layer, which the reefer in Mitch's link thinks that is a good thing.

One might guess that the deep water, forereef and lagoonal corals won't be as tolerant to bubbles as the reef crest and reef flat ones.

[mike31154]

Cool thread with interesting info. Don't find the idea gimmicky myself, particularly in light of other 'gimmicks' I've seen for this hobby. Certainly recall reading much about folks obsessing about microbubbles in their display caused by an overachieving skimmer in their sump. It's good to see another perspective on the effect of microbubbles.

My skimmer is in fact an old school wooden air diffuser job, diy, came with the tank. Quiet & does the job. Some years ago I happened across a glass Japanese skimmer design for nano tanks. Called a Mame, quite pricey, but a little work of art that uses a wooden diffuser & is located in the display, the bottom being open to tank water. I've considered something similar but on a larger scale for some day when I actually have a sump. Not sure I'd want something like this in larger scale in my display, using up valuable real estate. However, if one were ok with it, one may easily modify the concept with a valve somewhere to allow periodic bursts of microbubbles into the display.

Will be interesting to see how this develops further.... or not. The YouTube you linked to in an earlier post certainly leaves no doubt that shallow reefs are blasted regularly with copious amounts of bubbly goodness! And if we are indeed trying to emulate a little slice of the ocean in our tanks, why not? With our tanks being 3 feet deep at the most, why do we even bother with deeper water coral? Or a mixture of species???

Ducks head & runs...

[soapy]

Hey Mike, yes I remember those Mame skimmers I thought they were a clever design and was thinking of building a copy at one time.

Recently I was thinking of a similar idea to build a bubble containment device for those Bio-cube carbon dosing blocks. Something to contain the bubbles and salt spray but let the water migrate freely.