Canreef Aquatics Bulletin Board  

Go Back   Canreef Aquatics Bulletin Board > General > Reef

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-04-2013, 07:58 PM
asylumdown's Avatar
asylumdown asylumdown is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Calgary
Posts: 1,806
asylumdown is on a distinguished road
Default The biggest threat to our hobby

I normally don't like to get all Chicken Little about things, but I think everyone should read this Reefbuilder's article carefully:

http://reefbuilders.com/2013/04/03/r...coral-listing/

RB has written about this rule before, but the public comment period is about to close, and so far there's only 46 comments from the public. If this is passed, it could very well mean the end to the US coral trade, which can only have horrific consequences for us up here in Canada.

I'm very much in favour of conservation, and this hobby is by no means free of ethical dilemmas, but the NOAA has already acknowledged that the big threats to the species they're trying to list as threatened climate change and habitat destruction, neither of which have any hope of being resolved, addressed, or even influenced by this regulation. Furthermore, the science used to classify many of these species as endangered or threatened is so flaky it can't even be called science. I'm not saying they're not threatened, but the work to prove it absolutely has not been done. This is how the IUCN has evaluated the risk status of Acanthastrea ishigakiensis:

"There is no species specific population information available for this species. However, there is evidence that overall coral reef habitat has declined, and this is used as a proxy for population decline for this species."

Translation: we never actually did any work with this species, but we're guessing it's in trouble.

Making it illegal to grow these - or any other species - in home aquariums will absolutely, under no circumstances, prevent the destructions of reefs due to climate change. In fact, 99% of what we know about coral propogation and mariculture (techniques that are being used to restore reefs the world over) are the direct result of and funded by the hobby aquarium trade. When it comes to corals, the hobby is one of the biggest allies reefs have in terms of encouraging non-destructive reef related economic activities, which in turn funds the facilities and fosters the know how to repair reefs that are on the edge.

Obviously we need rules, but this is a bad one. I hope everyone takes a moment to comment on the regulation while there's still time. There's a link on the RB article to the comment page.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-04-2013, 08:01 PM
beefORchicken's Avatar
beefORchicken beefORchicken is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Surrey
Posts: 101
beefORchicken is on a distinguished road
Default

agreed +1
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-04-2013, 08:23 PM
Proteus's Avatar
Proteus Proteus is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Devon
Posts: 2,784
Proteus is on a distinguished road
Default

Done. Thanks for the link
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-04-2013, 08:36 PM
Delphinus's Avatar
Delphinus Delphinus is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Calgary
Posts: 12,896
Delphinus has a spectacular aura aboutDelphinus has a spectacular aura aboutDelphinus has a spectacular aura about
Send a message via MSN to Delphinus
Default

Only 46 from the public? Man I even put a comment in. I'm thinking that figure is not updated.

No, I think you're right though. It's not like this sort of thing hasn't come up before, but everytime something like this comes up, it gets a little closer to sticking. I think the will come that the hobby will be changed. It might not be today, or next year .. but eventually having corals in a captive reef in a home may become something that only exists in past tense.

Hoping that common sense and reason will eventually prevail, but .... well, like I said, I put my comments in already. We'll see where things go.
__________________
-- Tony
My next hobby will be flooding my basement while repeatedly banging my head against a brick wall and tearing up $100 bills. Whee!
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-04-2013, 08:42 PM
Delphinus's Avatar
Delphinus Delphinus is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Calgary
Posts: 12,896
Delphinus has a spectacular aura aboutDelphinus has a spectacular aura aboutDelphinus has a spectacular aura about
Send a message via MSN to Delphinus
Default

Well at least it's not actually only 46 comments. The webpage shows 481 but when you do start looking at them there are 530 comments. Good, at least we are seeing some numbers.
__________________
-- Tony
My next hobby will be flooding my basement while repeatedly banging my head against a brick wall and tearing up $100 bills. Whee!
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-04-2013, 08:51 PM
Jakegr's Avatar
Jakegr Jakegr is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Saskatoon, SK
Posts: 264
Jakegr is on a distinguished road
Default

I completely support the opinion that a potential ban on aquacultured species is ridiculous, but I do have some concerns with MASNA's stance. Specifically the "they should to be listed as "species of concern" and studied". This is just not possible.

I posted under the ReefBuilders article saying as much. The vast majority of fisheries have to make due with insufficient data and analysis. It is unreasonable to wait for those species to be thoroughly studied, in my opinion, because it will just never happen. There are not enough resources (people and money) to do the work. In my opinion, that stance is not one that is based on the reality of commercial fisheries.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-04-2013, 09:19 PM
naesco's Avatar
naesco naesco is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: vancouver
Posts: 1,747
naesco is on a distinguished road
Default

It is a mistake to say that the problems are created by the environment and to blame others.

The fish/coral industry is a problem and a serious one because they ignore the problem.
There are many examples including importing fish and coral that has no reasonable chance of success.

We should not be bringing in any wild fish or coral where aquacultured are available. The mining of live rock must also stop.

If we ignore the problem we will be left with trading brown frags amongst eachother.

If the species on the list are deemed threatened we as hobbyists should be the first to fully support the legislation!!
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-04-2013, 09:24 PM
asylumdown's Avatar
asylumdown asylumdown is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Calgary
Posts: 1,806
asylumdown is on a distinguished road
Default

yah you're right, it was only showing the comments from yesterday, not all of them. There's about 500. Most of them seem to be against the ban. The ones I read in favour of the ban did not read as though the authors really understood the issue - "evil humans bad, mother nature good! Yay nature!"

And yah, the whole legal structure surrounding endangered species needs work. There clearly should be some sort of legislative structure governing the conservation of reef species, but it seems like there's just no appropriate tool in place for them. The ESA is a smothering blanket that is blind to the nuance of the aquarium industry, but there's no question there's an over-harvesting of some species that are hard to propagate, like elegance corals.

I hope it doesn't pass. The group who nominated these corals for the ESA did it pretty much for pure political reasons to try to force the US government to act meaningfully on the topic of CO2 emissions. 99 times out of 100, I'd have been on their side, but they're effectively holding our hobby ransom for political gain. Heck, if listing those corals as threatened or endangered had one lick of a hope of affecting global CO2 emissions, I might actually support it, but it won't and never will.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-04-2013, 09:28 PM
Snappy's Avatar
Snappy Snappy is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 4,675
Snappy is on a distinguished road
Default Excerpt from the Coral Magazine newsletter this today

Endangered Species Listings Could End Trade in Stony Corals

URGENT Call for Concerned Aquarists to Write Objections



Will U.S. Fish & Wildlife inspectors be able to ID incoming stony corals?Photo Credit: Scott W. Michael/Aquarium Corals(Unidentified Acropora, Indonesia.)







PIJAC, the Pet Industry Joint Advisory Council, issued a call to action on April 3rd, 2013, for everyone involved in the aquarium industry and hobby to submit public commentary in response to the NOAA Proposal to list 66 CORAL Species on the Endangered Species Act (ESA) as we first reported late November, 2012.

You have less than 48 hours remaining to submit your public comment (electronic submissions are closed after 11:59 PM EDT, April 5th, 2013). Mail submissions must be postmarked April 6th.

Public commentary is a fundamental core part of the ESA listing process, so don’t think what you say won’t make a difference – it certainly could.

We are providing expanded commentary on the NOAA ESA Coral Petition issue in another article today; if you’re unfamiliar we encourage you to become invested in the implications this proposal has for you as an aquarist.

For those already familiar with the issue and simply looking for instructions, you can view the full PIJAC press release with instructions. We’ve also excerpted a portion here.

Recommended Action:

PIJAC urges people involved with the ornamental marine trade and hobby to not only submit their personal comments, but also forward this PetAlert to others involved with marine organisms, marine products, and marine retailers. COMMENTS MUST BE SUBMITTED BY APRIL 6, 2013. See below for instructions on how and where to submit your comments.

Comments should include a brief description of your involvement with coral activities. Your comments should be in your own words – do not simply copy the talking points.

Comments should be addressed to:

Regulatory Branch Chief
Protected Resources Division
National Marine Fisheries Service
Pacific Islands Regional Office
1601 Kapiolani Blvd.
Honolulu, HI 96814
Attn: 82 Coral Species Proposed Listing

Or

Assistant Regional Administrator,
Protected Resources,
National Marine Fisheries Service,
Southeast Regional Office,
263 13th Avenue South,
Saint Petersburg, FL 33701,
Attn: 82 coral species proposed listing

Electronic Submission: Submit all electronic public comments NO LATER THAN APRIL 5 via the Federal e-Rulemaking Portal www.regulations.gov. To submit comments via the e-Rulemaking Portal, first click the “submit a comment” icon, then enter NOAA-NMFS-2010-0036 in the keyword search. Locate the document you wish to comment on from the resulting list and click on the “Submit a Comment” icon on the right of that line. Attachments to electronic comments will be accepted in Microsoft Word or Excel, WordPerfect, or Adobe PDF file formats only. E-submissions must be filed by 11:59 pm EDT on April 5 when the system shuts down. If you encounter problems filing electronically FAX and mail a copy.

Mail: Submit written comments to Regulatory Branch Chief, Protected Resources Division, National Marine Fisheries Service, Pacific Islands Regional Office, 1601 Kapiolani Blvd., Suite 1110, Honolulu, HI 96814; or Assistant Regional Administrator, Protected Resources, National Marine Fisheries Service, Southeast Regional Office, 263 13th Avenue South, Saint Petersburg, FL 33701, Attn: 82 coral species proposed listing. Must be postmarked no later than April 6 and to be safe send April 5.

Fax: 808-973-2941; Attn: Protected Resources Regulatory Branch Chief; or 727-824-5309; Attn: Protected Resources Assistant Regional Administrator.
Postal or Fax Submissions: If responding by mail, make sure the envelope is postmarked/date stamped on or before April 6. PIJAC recommends that you also FAX a copy to NMFS.

For any questions about this proposal and responding to it, contact PIJAC at info@pijac.org or Marshall Meyers at marshall@pijac.org.

Download or view the full PIJAC release



COMMENTARY:

What's Being Proposed and What's An Aquarist to Do?







Acropora verweyi, one of 66 stony coral species proposed for listing under the Endangered Species Act.


Opinion By Matt Pedersen,Aquaculturist & CORAL Magazine Senior Editor
EXCERPT

"Don’t overlook the at-home implications of an ESA listing. Being listed as an endangered species under the ESA makes it illegal to own or propagate the species under the “Take Prohibition”—”Endangered species, their parts, or any products made from them may not be imported, exported, possessed, or sold” according to the Earth Justice Citizen’s Guide to the ESA.

"It is unclear that there would be any legal way to provide exceptions or grandfather in past legal ownership or propagation. Could your next “20,000 Leagues Lokani” frag be your last, or worse, do you have to grind your entire Candy Cane Coral colony into a pulp or risk jail time or fines for owning it, despite having purchased it legally years prior?

"Should these listings go into effect, will the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service have a “Reefer’s Amnesty Day” where we can all turn in our then contraband livestock?

"Pragmatically, the aquarium-industry implications of this proposal are such that we could quite literally all return to keeping fish-only marine aquariums. That is, we’ll be fine with fish until we have to deal with any successful efforts by the Center for Biological Diversity to list Amphiprion percula as an endangered species under the ESA (at which point am I required by law to flush the 200 baby Percula Clownfish I spawned and reared in my basement or risk civil and criminal penalties for owning a newly-dubbed “endangered species”?)." Read the full commentary...
__________________

Greg
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-04-2013, 09:36 PM
asylumdown's Avatar
asylumdown asylumdown is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Calgary
Posts: 1,806
asylumdown is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by naesco View Post
It is a mistake to say that the problems are created by the environment and to blame others.

The fish/coral industry is a problem and a serious one because they ignore the problem.
There are many examples including importing fish and coral that has no reasonable chance of success.

We should not be bringing in any wild fish or coral where aquacultured are available. The mining of live rock must also stop.

If we ignore the problem we will be left with trading brown frags amongst eachother.

If the species on the list are deemed threatened we as hobbyists should be the first to fully support the legislation!!
The problem is that there is next to nothing actually known about the population status of most of the corals on the list. They don't actually know if they're threatened or not, they're guessing. The other problem is that they're saying they're threatened because climate change is destroying reefs. Well, everything that lives on a reef is threatened because of climate change, why are they limiting it to these 83 species? They only plan to list them as threatened, they have no plan to further study, or actively engage in their conservation in any way. A legal designation as threatened without a plan to do something about it is useless and punitive. Also, climate change has nothing to do with the aquarium hobby, whether we grow and trade maricultured specimens or not, the reefs are going to continue to bleach. There are further issues with the fact that they've listed species from all the major aquarium genuses (geni?); I'd pay you 100 bucks if you could find me a US customs agent who could (or would bother to take the time) to differentiate two different species of acropora, many of whom can only be ID'd by examining their naked skeletons under a microscope. This legislation would halt the US trade in all acropora, all montipora, and all euphyllia, to name a few.

The point of this is for the Center for Biological Diversity to make some statement about global warming. It has nothing to do with the conservation of truly threatened coral species.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 04:06 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.