EcoTech Radion LED - Research, opinions and speculation

[abcha0s]

No doubt, there lots of hype around these LEDs. One of our customers has been nice enough to share some good research links with me. I thought I would post them for everyone else.

Aqua Digital - Official Canreef Anouncement
http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/sho...threadid=78275

Advanced Aquarist - Positive Review
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/blog...radion-preview

Captive Aquatics - Negative Speculation
http://blog.captive-aquatics.com/cap...nd-a-miss.html

Here's a couple of questions for everyone:

* Where's the line between hype and effective?
* Is the price point (apq. $800) more inline with value than EcoTech's competitors?
* What do you think of the technology when compared to other LED solutions?
* Do you see any major drawbacks of the lighting system other than criticism of LED in general?

My personal opinion is that the Capitive Aquatics speculative comments miss the point. The author focuses on the full power spectral output when the point of the lighting system is to have an adjustable spectrum. They do raise some good discussion points though.

I think the marketing strategy around these lights has been excellent, but I try to see past advertising. I am optimistic that the lights are more than just hype. I see real potential in them, but I am reserving my final judgement for just a bit longer.

The price point seems to position the lights better than most of the serious high end competitors.

I still love the single fixture solution from Vertex. Other than cost and possibly full spectrum control, I don't see any major advantages of the EcoTech solution. Although, I guess cost and spectrum control are a big deal. It's nice to see the cost on entry for LED coming down.

We do have enough confidence that these lights will be awesome that we have a large pre-order in with Aqua Digital. That's not the point of this thread, but it should highlight our overall support for this product.

Open debate welcome...

- Brad

[viperfish]

* Where's the line between hype and effective? Ecotech is venturing into a new line of technology which they haven't earned a reputation for, yet everyone is ready to throw down the cash. I would say this whole campaign hasn't been so much about the innovation as it has been to push the Ecotech name and sell lights because they make a good pump. Having said that, I'm sure it will be an awesome product.
* Is the price point (apq. $800) more inline with value than EcoTech's competitors? Most tanks will need two or three of these fixtures so the price point is on par, I wouldn't say there is any savings over the competitors.[/b]
* What do you think of the technology when compared to other LED solutions? [b]Selectable colour temperature, high PAR, even dawn/dusk are useable features. Lightning, cloud cover simulation, and sync with the Vortech pumps are all useless features IMO. Cool things to show your buddies while having a few beer, but certainly doesn't constitute "high end" features.
* Do you see any major drawbacks of the lighting system other than criticism of LED in general? LED is excellent technology, still very new and demands a high price. That tells me it's still a little early in the game for this tech. Affordability for everyone will come but I don't think it's there yet. There are other technologies such as plasma and induction lamps thay may very well take over but at this time LED is certainly the best means of reef tank lighting.

I think the biggest disappointment for me was the form factor. I was expecting a very radical design that would be unique and recognizable as an Ecotech product (just as their pumps are). Ecotech played it very safe with the design and chose a very boxy conservative look for the fixture. The Mazarra still wins in the looks department.

[Lampshade]

* Where's the line between hype and effective? EcoTech's made a name for themselves with the pumps, They came out quiet a while ago, and where a new thought. Once they worked out the bugs of the first model, the new ES's are great. Wasn't much Hype when they came out, but now people wonder how other's grow coral without it. The lights have lots of hype, the whole red LED thing is their new twist that vertex jumped on right away with the new modules. Should be interesting to see what kind of "bugs" may be in the new lights.

* Is the price point (apq. $800) more inline with value than EcoTech's competitors? I would need 3 for my 6 foot, 2400 is a rough hit, but beats the 3K+ for a vertex fixture. Seems in line with competition, as for actual value.... there's $20 of aluminium and $100 worth of LED's.... add on the typical saltwater aquarium tax of 700% and it's normal!

* What do you think of the technology when compared to other LED solutions? Great idea to market as a 250W MH replacement. People know what they need. Compared to a full 1 piece unit that you "Hope" has enough power to match what you had. The technology itself should be interesting as people get better and better dawn/dusk setups out with red sky's and using the full color spectrum.

* Do you see any major drawbacks of the lighting system other than criticism of LED in general? LED's can blend to create colors very well, but in general, if i leave my lights on in my fish room for the day, even with the "blend" of my much brighter tank lights... i have to scrape double the algae from the glass.
As also, the first series of Vortech's had "issue's". I"ll wait for the Radion ES :P


As for the look, check out mrsaltwater's video, i thought they looked typical until i saw the video, these things are tiny, and will look amazing with 2-3 over your tank providing all that light. A much more minimalistic design than other large normal tank covering fixtures.

The negative review is well, terrible IMO. He explains how the light spectrum is wrong, etc, etc. But failed to looks at how the fixture actually works. It has nearly double the par as a 250W halide, and can use nearly any visible spectrum by adjusting RBG values, this thing should be able to get fine tuned for any kind of funky coral you have growing.

Anyways... I very much agree that there needs to be an introductory fixture for cheaper, LED's are dirt cheap at manufacturing quantities. But then again, so are $20 motor systems that get sold out regularly at $650

[mark]

considering other manufacturers are using the same LED elements, what makes one fixture over another high-end?

[lastlight]

I think what the hobby really needs is a fixture with the high-quality diodes and the basic finish of all the cheaper chinese fixtures. Toss in dimming and skip the rest. I'm thinking if Ecotech can sell this unit for $825 for people with no canopy then we could potentially see other units with high quality components without (imo) useless features and finish. I don't see Ecotech ever doing this though.

Based on my own research that fixture has yet be be made by anyone. It'd be a huge seller I think. It's do-able within the DIY realm I suppose but I'd like to see prebuilt units of this nature.

[mike31154]

Originally Posted by lastlight

I think what the hobby really needs is a fixture with the high-quality diodes and the basic finish of all the cheaper chinese fixtures. Toss in dimming and skip the rest. I'm thinking if Ecotech can sell this unit for $825 for people with no canopy then we could potentially see other units with high quality components without (imo) useless features and finish. I don't see Ecotech ever doing this though.

Based on my own research that fixture has yet be be made by anyone. It'd be a huge seller I think. It's do-able within the DIY realm I suppose but I'd like to see prebuilt units of this nature.

Check out the Orphek PR-156 series. Fairly straightforward with LEDs specifically designed to provide PUR spectrum. No dimmer but comes with 2 built in programable timers to provide dawn/dusk effect through array switching.

EDIT: After perusing the Captive Aquatics blog article on the Radion, found this link at the bottom of the page. Orphek PR-156 review, he likes it.

http://blog.captive-aquatics.com/cap...ht-review.html

[viperfish]

Originally Posted by mark

considering other manufacturers are using the same LED elements, what makes one fixture over another high-end?

I would say solid build quality, ability to control colour spectrum, good heat dissipation, practical mounting options, good customer service (not a physical characteristic but very important). Using the same LED elements is only one aspect of the fixture.

[lastlight]

Yeah I had mentioned the Orphek when that Radion review came out. It smelled like an Orphek advertisement the way the review was worded and the specific aspects of the fixture they decided to tear apart (which the Orphek apparently excels at). The site seems a touch biased in my opinion.

I like the Orphek based on what I've read but it's still too expensive!

I guess it's a double kick to the nuts for large tank guys. You need complete coverage and when you're dealing with larger footprints it sucks a wallet dry.

I'm more convinced all the time that if I do make the cross over it will have to be DIY. Fixtures with seemingly good components all come with extras to demand a high price tag.

Originally Posted by mike31154

Check out the Orphek PR-156 series. Fairly straightforward with LEDs specifically designed to provide PUR spectrum. No dimmer but comes with 2 built in programable timers to provide dawn/dusk effect through array switching.

EDIT: After perusing the Captive Aquatics blog article on the Radion, found this link at the bottom of the page. Orphek PR-156 review, he likes it.

http://blog.captive-aquatics.com/cap...ht-review.html

[fishytime]

Originally Posted by lastlight

I'm more convinced all the time that if I do make the cross over it will have to be DIY. Fixtures with seemingly good components all come with extras to demand a high price tag.

What about the club Brett?

[lastlight]

Originally Posted by fishytime

What about the club Brett?

I was forced to start the club Doug. I want out like most =)

I've been catching up on Macna coverage over at the RB website. Seems AI is sorta doing what I was talking about: lower price fixture by sacrificing a bit of finish but still using top quality diodes =) Reminds me a lot of what ATI did with the sunpower.

The plot thickens!