Legal question:Selling house with built in tank, are fish pets?

[Seth81]

I wonder if anyone on here actually has any legal background and not just an opinion

Anyways, the initial sales document doesn't mention a thing about the aquarium.

I think as people have mentioned, these people just want to extract every penny they can.

I met the husband during the house inspection and he said he had no interest in the tank, and that he doesn't know the first think about fish let alone reefing.

I am very tempted to have the aquarium off and drained by the time we leave the house, but I guess it costs me very little to have it running. And our lawyer was pretty adamant about having it in the same condition as when the saw it last (fish and all). It is really too late to get a new lawyer, but would love a second legal opinion.

And yeah the Calgary market is brutal right now, and if these buyers walked away, I doubt I would be able to sell again in time to be able to close on our new very expensive house. Their small deposit would be eaten away quickly by the high penalty like interest I would have to pay on the new place until we can sell.

Originally Posted by TheMikey

I'm not a real estate lawyer but:

What does your sales document say? All fixtures generally go along with a property transfer and any additional terms or conditions are written in (i.e. all appliances, microwave, washer/dryer, etc.).

At the end of the day, what does the contract/agreement you've executed say? If you put your signature to it, you've promised to uphold your end. This is a contract dispute, so a determination of your obligations will go back to what was written and what was said by each parties (although the written part is much more concrete).

Does the sale contract include the aquarium livestock? Did the purchasers ever say "we want to keep it all?"

If not, you indicated first that they wanted it all gone and had no interest in the tank. This is why you sold your livestock and (presumably) also tried to sell the hardware?

Sounds like you might want to go to a different lawyer.

[Aquattro]

Originally Posted by Seth81

I wonder if anyone on here actually has any legal background and not just an opinion

I would suggest the problem here is that this is likely the first time in the history of ever that this has come up, so even a real estate lawyer wouldn't have a good answer.
To argue in court, I would present that the fridge is included in the house unless otherwise stated. As it was not stated, it in included. That does not, in the view of any reasonable person, presume that the food in said fridge is also included. This can easily be transferred to the argument at hand, and if it went to court, you're going to win just using that comparison. Particularly since your fish had names and were considered, at least to you and your family, to be family pets.

However, if you want a real set in stone answer, don't ask the internet, hire and ask a lawyer who can answer this based on precedence in the field.

[Seth81]

You mean a different lawyer! lol

Well stay tuned to see if what happens!

Originally Posted by Aquattro

I would suggest the problem here is that this is likely the first time in the history of ever that this has come up, so even a real estate lawyer wouldn't have a good answer.
To argue in court, I would present that the fridge is included in the house unless otherwise stated. As it was not stated, it in included. That does not, in the view of any reasonable person, presume that the food in said fridge is also included. This can easily be transferred to the argument at hand, and if it went to court, you're going to win just using that comparison. Particularly since your fish had names and were considered, at least to you and your family, to be family pets.

However, if you want a real set in stone answer, don't ask the internet, hire and ask a lawyer who can answer this based on precedence in the field.

[MitchM]

I have commercial real estate experience, and if your aquarium is an integral part of the house (like a dishwasher), then it will be deemed part of the house.
If you're leaving the aquarium anyways, it doesn't have to have fish in it. If you really want to sell the house and the buyers are going to be petty, fill it with freshwater and goldfish.

If the aquarium is a separate unit, stand, plumbing, equipment and doesn't leave any holes in the walls or floors, it's a piece of furniture that you can take with you.

Everything is a bargaining point, either the buyers want the house or they don't.

[GoFish]

If you would like a second opinion you could try the Alberta Law Society "Lawyer Referral" service
I've used this before through the Canadian Bar Association of BC. it led to a 1/2hr consultation, which was very helpful. They give you a few numbers of lawyers in your geographical are and type of law you need assistance with. For me there was a $25 fee which as you know is damn cheap to have a lawyer speak to you. It looks as though in Alberta in may be free?

Have a read through this, there's a phone number to call. I know you're asking for legal advice from canreef but it seems like the legal department is on vacation right now http://www.lawsociety.ab.ca/public/lawyer_referral.aspx

[Reef Pilot]

When we bought our current house, it came with tank and inhabitants (that's how I got into this crazy hobby!). The seller asked us whether we wanted to keep the tank or not. We said yes, and wrote it into the offer (just like appliances), but didn't specifically mention contents and accessories (sump, pumps, etc). But he left us everything (and gave me some quick saltwater lessons).

There was also a pond in the back with some big Koi in it. He specifically asked to take the Koi a month or so later, to move to his new pond with his new house. That, too, was in the contract. I was fine with that, and ended up with a bunch of left over baby Koi in the sump pond anyway which I then transferred into the main pond. They are now all big. So that turned out fine for me too.

So in my case, it all worked out OK. But it helped by talking first and then specifying some details in the offer contract.

In your case, I would not want to jeopardize the sale falling through in a bad market. So would just give him what he wants. Probably a lot cheaper than hiring another lawyer or having a court battle over it.

But with real estate, it is not uncommon for both sellers and buyers (the real estate agents put them up to this) to try and wangle some last minute stuff out of a deal. Sad, but that's why you need to be vigilant with your own real estate agent when drafting offers (or counter offers).

[TheMikey]

I am not a real estate lawyer. The following is not legal advice and nothing said on a forum should ever be construed as legal advice.

In my experience, you'd be best served to hire a second lawyer for a 1/2 hour to 1 hour consultation. Call them up, explain your issue and ask for their opinion. It might cost you $100-200 for their time (ask for the fees too in advance). It seems like a straight-forward issue that they will be able to answer quickly.

You gotta look at the big picture here. What do you stand to lose (by way of deposit, Real Estate fees, placing house back to market, etc.) if this sale goes sideways? If the buyer walks away (even if you're in the right), are you prepared to hire a lawyer to pursue this case in court?

If you don't know the answer to those questions, you NEED legal advice. Or else you're opening yourself up to a host of issues that will cost FAR more than a brief consult with another lawyer. At this point, you may need to begin collecting documents and making notes in case this matter IS litigated.

Also, review your documents with your Realtor to see what exactly was promised (in all honesty, if you see a second lawyer, they'll want this document also).

[jorjef]

Originally Posted by Aquattro

If they want to insist, toss a damsel in the tank.

Or, tell them to FO, and cancel the transaction.

That is what I call sound advise. personally I would go with the second recommendation.

Originally Posted by The Guy

Things are way too politically correct these days!

So true. Being politically correct is making this country a nation of spineless weenies.

[Aquattro]

Re-reading this, I see only this

Originally Posted by Seth81

the lawyer is saying I may need to replace the fish.

The lawyer is suggesting you MAY have to leave fish. Have the buyers asked for fish? Or is this just simply based on some random lawyer comment?

Personally, I'd leave a glass box full of cold water and some sand. The rest is contents and I'd be taking them with me.

[GoFish]

Originally Posted by Seth81

I think as people have mentioned, these people just want to extract every penny they can

I mean this in the sincerest of ways. Keep in mind you're posting on a public forum.
I am totally on your side here. Just know that canreef is a very public site and said purchasers may decide to look into what it actually takes to setup and keep a saltwater aquarium running. You never know where they might look.
Defence lawyers looooove social media. Facebook as an example has won and lost many court cases in recent history

Anyhoo, if said purchasers read this thread. Give Seth a break! They were his pets and he did what he thought was best for them. There are many fish in the sea and we will help you with whatever you need! As long as you dont introduce yourselves as this couple...kidding

Good luck with how this turns out Seth, and your new house with your new tank!