Vortech in a smallish cube

[ElGuappo]

Originally Posted by Delphinus

Sorry, I realize that my questions are I guess out of context for a small cube which is what you were going for with your review, it's just that you were a convenient outlet for me to pose MY questions about the product. Be patient, I have no life and I have no friends and now you are the ONLY person I know (who speaks to me anyhow) who has one of these, so you're now the "expert on all things Vortech" in my world.

I found your ranting quite helpful i was totaly unaware that you could not aim these. its a bit of a big deal for me as i have an even smaller tank.

Sean working at an lfs must give you all kinds of perspective on things sich as this.

[Der_Iron_Chef]

You can't REALLY *aim* the tunze waveboxes either....but I think one of the draws of the (new) Vortech is its wavemaking capability. And apparently this works so well that you don't really need to aim it.

Just speaking from what I've read...no personal experience here

[ElGuappo]

Originally Posted by Der_Iron_Chef

And apparently this works so well that you don't really need to aim it.

Just speaking from what I've read...no personal experience here

ya i noticed in the vid that ther probably wouldnt need to be any other PHs in a tank with this runing.

If sean would be so kind as to take another vid with something in the tank to show the flow that would be MUCH appreciated. even if it was just a dose of purple up or sumething so the curren could be veiwed.

[kwirky]

Originally Posted by Der_Iron_Chef

You can't REALLY *aim* the tunze waveboxes either....but I think one of the draws of the (new) Vortech is its wavemaking capability. And apparently this works so well that you don't really need to aim it.

Just speaking from what I've read...no personal experience here

you know what I never even thought about that. With any other powerheads I'm constantly playing with their position and direction. I never even thought about direction with my vortech until you mentioned it because as soon as the rock was in the tank I was satisfied with the water flow and direction.

Originally Posted by ElGuappo

ya i noticed in the vid that ther probably wouldnt need to be any other PHs in a tank with this runing.

If sean would be so kind as to take another vid with something in the tank to show the flow that would be MUCH appreciated. even if it was just a dose of purple up or sumething so the curren could be veiwed.

here's another video that should show the flow better (40mb 1800kbps windows media video):
http://www.kwirky88.com/video/wavemaker05.wmv

Originally Posted by ElGuappo

Sean working at an lfs must give you all kinds of perspective on things sich as this.

I'm usually too busy bagging fish or changing water to learn anything. I try to squeeze info out of some of the regulars at the store who run nice systems. Most of my "product knowledge" has to be learned at home or during rare moments of slowness where nothing else needs to be done. When I am learning stuff it's usually for the benefit of my own tank. I consider myself a hobbyist before an employee.

Originally Posted by digital-audiophile

I youtubed some vids last night to.. and I am starting to wonder if I would really need 2 units in a 90G one on the side might just be enough.. hmmmm....

you'll probably want another one though . I want another one already lol but I'll have to wait a while. I started the nano tank because it was SUPPOSED to be cheaper than running the 120g tank again lol. But I keep thinking of the potential of 2 units on reef crest random mode in antisync. There's random movement but some areas of the tank have more laminar flow than random flow. That's mostly in the outer regions of the tank where the flow is wrapping along the glass instead of through the rocks.

[Delphinus]

Thanks for the new video Sean.

It looks like a great unit. For sure it looks like you wouldn't need anything else for flow in your tank.

So, if each unit comes with a controller of its own, how does one determine which one is the "base unit" when you have multiple units?

I do love the stealthy aspect of it. See, what Drew said about the waveboxes not being aimable is why I was thinking it was a question of "Vortech versus wavebox" not "Vortech versus streams". But this is clearly more versatile than a wavebox on its own AND it's cheaper than a wavebox.

[kwirky]

Originally Posted by Delphinus

Thanks for the new video Sean.

It looks like a great unit. For sure it looks like you wouldn't need anything else for flow in your tank.

So, if each unit comes with a controller of its own, how does one determine which one is the "base unit" when you have multiple units?

I do love the stealthy aspect of it. See, what Drew said about the waveboxes not being aimable is why I was thinking it was a question of "Vortech versus wavebox" not "Vortech versus streams". But this is clearly more versatile than a wavebox on its own AND it's cheaper than a wavebox.

there's a holding of buttons combination you enter to change the pumps between master and slave and then sync/antisync.

As for making real waves with the single unit I don't know how it'd work on a larger tank with only one. But wavemaking is a gimick I think compared to random water flow. Reefs don't experience "waves," they experience the random water flow swirling around the corals n such. I think areas in nature that have actual waves are those macroalgae reefs. I saw one mimicked at the vancouver aquarium a while ago that was probably using one of those gravity powered wavemakers you can DIY. It had macroalgae waving back & forth, no coral.

buying two vortechs would be more expensive than a wavebox but I predict it'd provide better flow than a single wavebox. When looking at a wavebox in action it seemed like the water wasn't really getting anywhere, just back & forth. The reef crest random mode or lagoon random mode would get the water places.

And waves aren't good for the tank, structurally. A wavebox and a vortech are capable of making extreme waves like you see in youtube videos. I asked gary (the contractor who built my tank) about using a wavemaker and he immediatly gave me a big fat no . Aghast is how I could describe his answer lol. He said even if the tank were built with 10mm glass he'd rather it not be done. He said lots of random turbulent flow would be ok on the tank.

those are the reasons I was comparing it to the streams on a controller rather than a wavebox. Or even a stream on a wavysea. That'd be the ultimate but the most expensive (and bulkiest) I believe.

Wai's has a wavebox setup if you're in calgary and want to see one in action yourself. I was nowhere near impressed with as I am with the vortech. I saw another one in action at a reefer's house like a year ago. He had it cranked up crazy high and lots of his corals reacted poorly to it.

[Delphinus]

Thanks, I realize that, but it's OK - I already have 2 ready to go. Like I said earlier though it's my frustration that there aren't displays where you can go and see and compare each in person that makes preguessing beforehand what is the better choice for you somewhat difficult. If I could have seen both in person I might have made a different choice in how to spend the investment.

I kind of agree, kind of disagree that waves are a gimmick. I would put it as, water flow is just the most important aspect of modeling the biotope. The whoosh whoosh back and forth effect is a nice aesthetic but the more important part of the equation is the dispersion of the flow and the distribution. When Rob Toonen came to town a few years back I had a great conversation with him about water movement. (I'm quoting him now because I don't have any references handy, sorry), he told me that water movement from opposing directions (as opposed to a static flow condition) can influence coral growth by as much as ten times. That's not insignificant, and if you think about it, it makes sense that a reef doesn't see water coming in the same direction 100% of the time.

So I think it depends on how you're using it and why.

At any rate, I keep trying to say that I think the Vortech is a good unit and it feels like you keep trying to argue with me. I don't get it. So, I guess I'll just stop playing now. You're right ... um .. whatever it is you're trying to say, you're right, and I'm wrong. Peace out. (J/K - note the smileys. I like the Vortech, I'm sort of second guessing my choices now is all.)

[kwirky]

I'm sorry if I sounded argumentative tony. unfortunately typed text doesn't work as well as face to face and online conversations suffers because of it. call the previous post ranting/thinking aloud . I respect you and your experience, really I do.

[Delphinus]

Ditto (Sorry, I edited my post to show that I am just playing around here, but I was slow on the draw so you might have missed the edits - sorry.)

I am excited for the effect it has on your tank. It really looks like a great investment.

[ElGuappo]

Originally Posted by kwirky

I'm sorry if I sounded argumentative tony. unfortunately typed text doesn't work as well as face to face and online conversations suffers because of it. call the previous post ranting/thinking aloud . I respect you and your experience, really I do.

Ya its hard to get the feeling for tone and sarcasm. but what can you do.

[quote]I'm usually too busy bagging fish or changing water to learn anything. I try to squeeze info out of some of the regulars at the store who run nice systems. Most of my "product knowledge" has to be learned at home or during rare moments of slowness where nothing else needs to be done. When I am learning stuff it's usually for the benefit of my own tank. I consider myself a hobbyist before an employee.[quote]

Good call on this account hobbiest first.