Long term success without carbon dosing

[slakker]

I've had 3 tanks (simultaneously) in the last 5 years and NEVER carbon dosed. In my 72G, I've had success in LPS and softies, but never long term success with SPS... similarly with the 30G and 14G... so I just started with the bio pellets with my new 90G (upgraded the 72G)...

I think you can have success without carbon dosing, but like any technology, it a means to an ends and different people use different technologies to achieve the ends...

Heck I know a guy that still keeps a tank with nothing but water changes... no dosing, not kalk wasser, no kalk reactor, etc.. And he does alight...

[Son Of Skyline]

My tank is a little over 4 years old and at about the 3 year mark I started dosing vinegar and tried pellets. My algae all disappeared, and my corals became pale. I had to clean my pumps and plumbing twice as often because of the bacterial slime buildup. I could tell that all the inhabitants of the tank were stressed to some level. I stopped after 6 months and now everything seems much happier. Better PE, more "normal" algae growth, coral colors deepened again (some more brown but much happier looking), no more slime clogging up my plumbing..etc. I won't do carbon dosing again. My tank never needed it.

[asylumdown]

I would start bio-pellets now, if you plan on them being a part of your over-all tank strategy. Many of the cases of biopellets causing crazy cyano blooms (mine included) involved older tanks that were 'higher nutrient' starting pellets midstream. On my old 90 gallon, which was by no means an ULNS, I had cyano so badly you couldn't see the sand or rock a week after starting pellets. On my current tank, which has had pellets from the beginning and evolved from the start with them as a part of the system, I've never had that problem.

Also, I have no data to back this up, only personal experience from a single case (and an anecdote does not a rule make) - but I have a hypothesis that if you end up with a problem algae outbreak and then add pellets to try and control it, you're not going to have nearly as much success than if you start the pellets or some other carbon dosing regimen early and prevent the problem from happening in the first place. My logic behind this is that pellets can only suck nitrates from the water that is flowing through the reactor, while an established bed of algae has the entire surface area of your display tank to pull nutrients from the water column, so once an algae problem happens, they're going to be a better competitor for what does become available in the water than your biopellet reactor. I've never tried whole tank carbon dosing, but it probably doesn't apply in that case, but either way it's better to never let that problem develop in the first place.

The people who've had success with SPS and no carbon dosing long term have something else in their tanks dealing with the nutrients. Unless you do very frequent, very large water changes, that's never going to be sufficient to keep nitrates and phosphates down long term with a medium bio-load, so for the people who only do that and still have sparkling clean, algae free tanks, they likely also have very good live rock that denitrifies efficiently. You can try to cherry pick the best rock, but since you will never know what's really going on inside of it, you really have to rely on luck in choosing the best pieces if that's how you plan on dealing with nitrates long term. Bio-pellets or carbon dosing simply gives you more control over the process.

[asylumdown]

Originally Posted by Son Of Skyline

My tank is a little over 4 years old and at about the 3 year mark I started dosing vinegar and tried pellets. My algae all disappeared, and my corals became pale. I had to clean my pumps and plumbing twice as often because of the bacterial slime buildup. I could tell that all the inhabitants of the tank were stressed to some level. I stopped after 6 months and now everything seems much happier. Better PE, more "normal" algae growth, coral colors deepened again (some more brown but much happier looking), no more slime clogging up my plumbing..etc. I won't do carbon dosing again. My tank never needed it.

What you're describing is a pretty normal response to corals living in a low nutrient environment, it doesn't necessarily mean they're stressed. Some would argue that the darkening/browning of corals is also a symptom of stress. In reality, I think both conditions are simply different possible states along coral's range of possible adaptations, and what we think is 'best' comes down to personal taste. What you view as 'normal' algae growth might be nuisance levels to someone else. Changing the condition that a coral is adapted to will cause it stress, but they're very good at adapting to a wide variety of nutrient conditions given time (within reason). Whether you like 'deeper' colours and are ok with some brown and noticeable algae growth, or whether you like the more pastel 'zeo' look or don't want any algae growth at all comes down ultimately to personal taste.

In any case, having biopellets does not ultimately mean that you have to have an ULNS, controlling the amount of pellets you put in your reactor, or getting a recirculating reactor can allow you some control over the way your corals look.

[Son Of Skyline]

Originally Posted by asylumdown

What you're describing is a pretty normal response to corals living in a low nutrient environment, it doesn't necessarily mean they're stressed. Some would argue that the darkening/browning of corals is also a symptom of stress.

You're right. The colour change in a coral could mean any number of things, good and bad. I know my tank and its inhabitants well though, and I know the difference between a "good" response and a "stress" response. This was a stress response. In all my years of reef keeping, carbon dosing is new, and IMO a fad. People never had a problem keeping sps before carbon dosing.

[kien]

Originally Posted by Son Of Skyline

In all my years of reef keeping, carbon dosing is new, and IMO a fad.

Out of curiosity, when does a fad become mainstream? I thought carbon dosing has been around for a while now? Is there a time limit?

[RuGlu6]

Originally Posted by reeferfulton

Need some help here .

I have had my tank setup now for 2 months . I have had 5 fish in there now for about 2 weeks .

My nitrates with (elos kit) have been undetectable and still measuring .02 phosphates with the hanna checker.

I have purchased a full setup to run Biopellets , and also have a reactor and GFO on standby as well.

My questions are .

1.IF you Do carbon dose ( vodka , vinegar , biopellets ) when did you start and why ? nitrates where creeping up on you ?

2. Anyone running a lps/sps reef with fish medium stocked long term without any sort of carbon dosing . ? If so what levels of Nitrate are you happy with

feedback would be great .

Seems from the reading I do I am finding alot of people are running biopellets without really knowing why .Thus i am asking what people are doing

thanks

If your tank is new it is safe to start bio-pellets.

Any dosing requires testing, therefore you might get tired of the routine may not sound like a big deal now but eventually you may get sick of the dosing and testing.

I have had a few reef tanks since 1998 and never liked dosing just for that reason.
I always had a Calcium reactor (set it and forget it).

My present tank is almost 8 years old now SPS mostly some LPS and softies.
Tried dosing but for very short period to see any benefit. so i can say i have never fully implemented dosing.

I did tryed pellets on 4 years old SPS reef followed the proper regime to the "T" and still lost more then $450 worth of my best SPS.

So i did not have very good experience with bio pellets and would not recommend then on an established tank.
However on the new tank like yours it would be a lot less risky to try.

My tank is over stocked, over fed and over skimmed.
I have 1 very large (8" French Angel) , 2 large fish (Moorish Idol and Hippo Tang), two small Percula Clowns , one juvenile Coris Wrass and two tiny yellow gobies.

I grossly overfeed my 65 gal+ sump tank (two three cubes some times 4 per day plus flakes, cyclopeeze and lots of pellets) but over-skimm as well and it seems to be in very good balance. Bare bottom with lots of live rock in the display tank and sump as well.

Good luck with your new tank

[naesco]

Originally Posted by reeferfulton

Need some help here .

I have had my tank setup now for 2 months . I have had 5 fish in there now for about 2 weeks .

My nitrates with (elos kit) have been undetectable and still measuring .02 phosphates with the hanna checker.

I have purchased a full setup to run Biopellets , and also have a reactor and GFO on standby as well.

My questions are .

1.IF you Do carbon dose ( vodka , vinegar , biopellets ) when did you start and why ? nitrates where creeping up on you ?

2. Anyone running a lps/sps reef with fish medium stocked long term without any sort of carbon dosing . ? If so what levels of Nitrate are you happy with

feedback would be great .

Seems from the reading I do I am finding alot of people are running biopellets without really knowing why .Thus i am asking what people are doing

thanks

It is an unecessary expense and maintenance when you do not have problems.

But what you need to know and subject to the size of your tank and the size of your fish, you should only be adding one fish per month. The reason is that the biological filtration does not get out of wack.

Going to a lfs and coming out with a wack of fish is a newbie major error which most of us made when we started. The result was dead or diseased fish, high nitrates, and persistant (I am going to quit the hobby) algae problems.

Slow down. Patience is the key to success, not biopellets
Wayne

[Reef Pilot]

I think some people have problems with bio pellets, because they are not using MB7 or some other bacterial supplement. MB7 provides beneficial bacteria which out competes cyano and prevents mulm. It also makes my tank crystal clear.

Also, you need a good bio pellet reactor that tumbles your bio pellets properly.

I have used bio pellets (with MB7) for over a year now, and can say that it works very well for me. My SPS is growing very nicely.

I should mention that I inherited a very mature tank (10+ years) old that was totally infested with algae, cyano, detritus, etc, and phosphates and nitrates were very high. It took me a while to get it down, but now I have zero nitrates, and near zero phosphates. I also run GFO, as the bio pellets did not completely eliminate the phosphates.

Before that, I tried everything else, refugium, vacuuming sand, as well as brushing, turkey basting and rinsing my live rocks, not to mention lots of water changes. It was not until I started using bio pellets (and still took another 3 months) that I finally got my nitrates and phosphates totally under control. So no doubt in my mind that bio pellets work.

The other thing with bio pellets, is that it is very low maintenance. I last added pellets about 5 months ago, and noticed that my consumption is still decreasing. Plus I never have to clean my bio pellet reactor. And if there is a power outage (had one recently here), it starts right up, with no intervention or more maintenance.

But as per my initial post on this thread at the beginning, I still don't recommend bio pellets or carbon dosing on a new tank, unless you can't get your nitrates down with normal good tank husbandry practices.

[freezetyle]

not necessary,
but if you were looking for options it really depends on how hands on you want to be.
bio-pellets for the most part are set and forget. just make sure you are keeping them topped up and have the effluent of the reactor running into your skimmer intake.

vinegar- little bit more slack then the other methods, you can fine tune your dosage to where you you will limit algae while avoiding mulm build-up.
should be dosed daily via hand or pump

vodka/vsv mix- same as above but should be dosed by hand

zeovit/fm zeolith/ brightwell neozeo. - more labour intensive, little more expensive.



for what your goals are, and since you already have it, set up biopellets. add a little bit at a time so you dont get a biobloom. if your coral are starting to lighten up too much, feed more food. still getting algae, do more water changes