Importance of the Invoice

[mikey_d18]

even if the owner shows the invoice and on the invoice is says the fish is from figi ect... does not mean it is........thats why its important for stores to have good relationships with there wholesaler.....its all about trust..........And it DOES have to do with business confidentiality because........its a business and store owners dont necessarily want everyone to know where they get there excellent quality of fish from........

[Delphinus]

I don't know. At one time I'd certainly would agree with the statement that "some things are just none of the consumer's danged business" but I find that in today's reality, that is becoming more of a rare privledge. Company I work for has to produce invoices on demand... Hell, I have to provide a drivers abstract, submit random credit checks, or even pee into a cup if that's what turns my customers on. I don't like it one bit, and I'll happily tell the customer what I think of him if he asks for it ..... but after that, if I wish to remain employed, or to continue doing business, I have to comply. Tough patootie.

So I don't have one iota of sympathy anymore to those businesses who don't want to show me the invoice if I were to decide I need to see it. Confidentiality of suppliers is a load of crap unless somebody has something to hide. If they want, blot out the prices. I don't care if they make a 100% profit or whatever .... the point is I'm not in a position to buy $2000 of livestock by myself, so it's not like I'm going to go out and start importing things by myself. I recognize that the places I choose to do business with, need to make a profit if I wish for them to remain in business. And I do wish for them to remain in business, so that I can go shopping there again next month or next year. I certainly don't want to find myself with no LFS I can visit every now and again... I just want the LFS's to be clean and as green as possible. I don't think that's really too much to ask.

[mikey_d18]

i couldnt imagine asking...........can i see your invoice so i know u arnt lieing???............i feel like its such a rude request

[mikey_d18]

if u always have to ask to see the invoice to insure the salesperson is being honest, i dont think thats a store u would want to be shopping at

[Aquattro]

Tony, sorry you don't like your job, but I would be more than willing to show you the door from my LFS if you demanded it was YOUR right to see MY stuff. Just wouldn't happen.

And what happens now is that I alienate myself from all the marine retailers in my city. That means I have to mail order my fish. But I'm told to never mail order a tang, 'cause I need to see it first. So to buy a tang, I have to take a day off from work(where I don't pee in cups, BTW ), catch a ferry to Vancouver for ~$100, drive to Coquitlam and pick a healthy tang from J&L(who probably wouldn't show me invoices either). So now I have a tang that cost me roughly $375. Is this what we seriously expect the consumer to do??? If you can answer yes to this, you're a kook!!

[Ryan7]

reef raf,

first of all, if you ever told a customer to stick his head..... you would be out of business in a short time. So now it is fair for me to assume you are not a businessman.

If you believe the LFS when they tell you where the fish is from, without asking for any documentation, then it is also fair for me to asume that you believe the LFS when they tell you a fish is feeding, without actually seeing it feed, and when it doesn't feed, and they tell you it's becasue it was just fed before you got there, I asume you buy the fish anyway.

I worked at a fish store, and when reefers came in and asked questions like this, I respected them and knew they were not NEWBIES.

Any reputable LFS should be happy to show documentation requested by the customer, as they are entitled to know what they are buying.

[Aquattro]

Ryan, telling insane customers to shop elsewhere is not going to put me out of business. And I think I have always stated that I do not believe in the myth of the reputable LFS.
I have learned to make a reasonable assesment of a fish by watching it in the store. Based on my experience, I have been fairly successful in picking healthy fish. And this is what I tell people to do.
In my city, we do not have any reputable stores I guess, because none will show me an invoice. So where do you suggest I shop?

[naesco]

Reef raf yours is a distinct problem. Perhaps you have said or done something to **** your LFS.
But please remember new reefers read this board and yours is poor advice.
There is nothing wrong and everything right in asking a LFS where a fish came from
There is nothing wrong and everything right in asking to see a fish feed.
My God, for the benefit of new reefers tell them that you agree with me please.

[Aquattro]

Originally Posted by naesco

Reef raf yours is a distinct problem. Perhaps you have said or done something to **** your LFS.
But please remember new reefers read this board and yours is poor advice.
There is nothing wrong and everything right in asking a LFS where a fish came from
There is nothing wrong and everything right in asking to see a fish feed.
My God, for the benefit of new reefers tell them that you agree with me please.

Mine is only hypothetical, I am still welcome in my local stores. But they do all get fish from the philipines.
There is nothing wrong with the intent of the act that you are suggesting, just that realistically, I don't think the new consumer will have any luck actually seeing an invoice.
The feeding thing came from the LFS clerk above, I have no idea why. Viewing feeding is reasonable and every LFS I've visited has obliged. Ryan is picking fights where there was none.

I realize I come across as an ass on this topic, but I think I am accurate in my portrayal of the industry. I truly admire the intent of your actions, and wish this topic didn't even need to be discussed. Unfortunately, greed is the motivator in many fish stores.
That is why I maintain that the consumer learn to look for signs of a healthy fish and does not need to rely on the "advice" of the LFS owner/employee. Oh, and make sure the fish feeds before taking it home.

Naesco, although it may not be obvious, you and I are on the same side. I just call a spade a spade, instead of hoping it turns to a diamond.

[Troy F]

Keep it cool fellows, it's a hobby , we've all forgotten before (except me). I've seen invoices before and I don't think it would be to much of a problem to ask, they might say no and they might say here ya go. Knowing where the fish is collected is always a concern of mine and I always ask. John or Allen will just plain tell you where the shipment comes from and I'd believe them. I tend to do my business with retailers I can trust. There are retailers I don't trust, I wouldn't buy anything from them.

Brad, I'm not sure why you're so offended by this whole topic. In certain applications, the idea of seeing an invoice is crazy but on this topice considering the point of ethics and all, I think it a valid quiestion. I'm not saying the sheet will come out but no harm in aking. If one of my customers asks for a supplier I tell them, "I'm sure you can see why I'm not going to tell you that," and that ends it. I have customers asking for copies of my master keys, extracter keys and lock picks if you can believe it. I've yet to tell one to stuff their head up their ass, although, it is tempting at times.