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Old 04-04-2020, 09:01 PM
Bill1119 Bill1119 is offline
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Default Looking for feedback, Vodka / Carbon Dosing, Big Tank, Big Nitrates

I am taking a run at resurrecting for tank.
It has been running for 4 years, and is an upgrade from a previous 180 gallon.
It has basic corals mushrooms polyps, leather and a larger fish population, with a few show fish.

The tank is 270 Gallons, and sump volume is about 100 gallons (actual water volume) The sump contains a refegium section that I grow Caulerpa in.

I am testing with a red sea kit, and have to dilute the samples to get an ish range, currently testing between 250 and 300 ppm of Nitrate.
The nitrate has been a problem since the move from the 180 gallon tank, and subsequent power outages that wreaked havoc on my tank.

I had started this process a year and a half ago, but got pulled away by work and wasn't able to continue the vodka dosing on a daily basis.
The last time around I followed the recommended process of 0.1ml / 25 gal for 1-3 days, then 0.2ml / 25 gal for 4-7 days then increased 0.5ml per week after that (0.5 total)
Last time I took the Nitrates from >300ppm to 120 ppm but it took about 6 months combined with 50 gallons water changes 2-3 times per month.
I had seen some theories that the nitrates will saturate the rock and sand, and at levels like this, there will be a slow decline, because nitrates are released from the rock and sand as it is removed from the water.

I would like to take a more aggressive approach with the vodka dosing, but I have read alot of cautionary advice against this. I do not think it is unreasonable between the system volume and the level of nitrates,

Due to COVID I will have time on my hands this year to monitor closely and keep the daily dosing consistent.

Hope to find someone on this forum that has experience, that may be able to weigh in on reasonable dosing increases for the vodka.

TIA
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Old 04-04-2020, 09:30 PM
hillegom hillegom is offline
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following because I was always intrigued with this process.
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Old 04-04-2020, 09:43 PM
hillegom hillegom is offline
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Well, I do not have experience with this process.
However I came across this video which, to me, explains this process well.

https://www.facebook.com/REEF2REEF/v...54105568809806
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Old 04-04-2020, 10:40 PM
Bill1119 Bill1119 is offline
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That is a great video, very much to the point,

Makes a good pitch to use vinegar rather than vodka, and it would be easier to control precisely with a dosing pump,

They are not so discreet about dosing volumes either, suggesting a larger starting dosage, and larger weekly increases.

There is a good disclaimer on making sure the phosphates are in range, for the appropriate bacteria consumption rate between nitrates and phosphates.
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Old 04-06-2020, 02:59 AM
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Frogger Frogger is offline
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Whats your phosphate
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Old 04-06-2020, 08:47 PM
Llorgon Llorgon is offline
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I have been dosing vodka in my 25 gallon tank since February. Before vodka dosing my nitrates were around 40ppm and phosphates around 0.084. As of last week nitrates were 1.5ppm and phosphates 0.009ppm.


I followed the same 0.1ml / 25 gal for 1-3 days, then 0.2ml / 25 gal for 4-7 days then increased 0.5ml per week after that. My largest dose was 1.2ml which I kept up for 2 weeks.


While vodka dosing I have also cut back on the amount I was feeding, tried to feed more pellets instead of always frozen. Also did large weekly water changes where I vacuumed the sand and turkey basted the rocks.


I also double checked my water supply to make sure it was nitrate and phosphate free.


I found it took awhile for things to start to drop, but once it started I would notice a significant drop each week when I was testing. It took about 1 month for me to start seeing a drop. So it's not surprising it's taking awhile to drop in your tank.



If you stick with it it should start working! Good luck.
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Old 04-07-2020, 01:32 AM
Bill1119 Bill1119 is offline
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Thanks for the feedback so far!

Phosphate is at 5 ppm, tested with Red Sea Pro Kit,
I used a 1 ml tank water to 16 ml RO/DI water ratio and extrapolated the base 0.36 reading to 0.36 / (1/17) = 6.12

I tested the RO/DI water with no dilution and got a reading 0.08ppm.
To adjust my reading above, 0.08 / (1/17) = 1.36
(there may have been some contamination as I tested the tank water first, but I think this value is correct, my RO Membranes are 3 months overdue on changing)

Also of note on the Nitrates, I had tested the RO/DI water and got a value at or near 0, I was on the fence whether it could be called a 0 or 0.25 on the Red Sea Pro test kit.

I do strongly believe that the dosing works, as I had started with the process once previously.

You are correct that my water supply is not perfect but it is not bad in comparison to the tank parameters, and I have seen the water supply quickly correct when the RO filters are changed after a year of use. It is on the list to correct before driving substantial water changes again.

I intended to turn the tides on the nitrate and wait till it starts dropping before adding larger water changes, currently 50 gallon every 2 month, and will move to 50 gallons 4 times or more per month.


Llorgon, my initial post was specifically directed towards your experience and that it is generally accepted in the hobby to increase the vodka dose by 0.5ml per week on a 25 gallon tank, (after the initial week)

I am specifically asking if there is a reason this limit is set regardless of size of tank. (of 0.5ml per week)

On a 25 gallon tank you would have Day 1-3 @ 0.1ml, Day 4-7 @ 0.2ml, Week 2 @ 0.7 ml, Week 3 @ 1.2ml
From week 1 to week 2, the dose increase is over 2 times the week 1 dose, and even as a percentage from week 2 to week 3, the increase is 70%

For my system on this scale I am using 300 gallon system volume. Day 1-3 @ 1.2ml, Day 4-7 @ 2.4ml, Week 2 @ 2.9ml, Week 3 @ 3.4ml
From week 1 to week 2, the dose increase is almost 1/5 of my week 1 dose, and from week 2 to week 3, the increase is 17%


Based on my research the last 2 weeks, I am genuinely considering the following dosing,
Day 1-3 @ 1.2 ml
Day 4-7 @ 2.4 ml
Every 4 Days, Increase the Dose by 1.2 ml
(Or increase by 1 ml increments for ease of adjustments and a little bit of conservatism)

I understand that this is not endorsed by any reputable articles that I have seen, and wanted to see if anyone might disclose when they went to fast ( i have seen a few of those disclosures but never the details)

My Tank is 28 x 28 x 84 (inches), with 2 beveled corners (maybe 10 gallons lost) and the sump is 72 x 24 x 19, with a nominal water level of about 12 inches.

If nothing else I can let you guys know how it goes!
Still on the fence on risk, and not expecting anyone to say jump in, but hoping to hear the experiences like yours Llorgen, Thanks!
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Old 04-07-2020, 02:21 AM
Llorgon Llorgon is offline
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Unfortunately I'm not experienced enough to say what would happen if you added more than the recommended dosage. Im interested as well though!

Here are the two articles I was reading before starting vodka dosing.

https://www.melevsreef.com/articles/dosing-vodka-why

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-08/nftt/index.php

The guy in the first article has a similar size tank to yours, I think he said 280g. And it took about 7 months to see a drop. It seems like he did use some nitrate and phosphate removers during dosing. So maybe vodka, water changes and nitrate/phosphate removers would help. Although it could be risky if things drop too fast and too much.

The second is a guide with the standard dosing instructions. Near the bottom of the article it gives some examples of some adverse effects of to much carbon dosing. Sounds like some fish can be sensitive and you can get bacteria blooms.

Overall it dose kind of seem like do a dose, monitor and be ready to correct the tank if needed.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
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Old 04-07-2020, 05:37 AM
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I am not sure if I missed it or not but do you have uncontrolled algae growth or cyano growth in your tank?
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Old 04-08-2020, 03:07 PM
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I use Red Sea NoPox daily. My 250 had issues with nitrates and phosphates for years. It took 6 months at dosing at the recommended amount to get my numbers down to 'normal' ranges. I still have to dose daily.



Only thing I didn't like at first was cloudy water, which makes sense since it is a binding agent so it would precipitate out of the water and clog the filter socks pretty quickly.


I was up to 35ml / day at my levels initially, now I am down to 10 ml / day to maintain. Works wonders really.


Vodka, vinegar just forms of carbon dosing, I find the NoPox was the better option over time (not as cheap as vinegar) but...


Overall I would say carbon dosing in general is highly effective but it takes a long time to really see numbers drop.
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