Outraged!!! - Page 11

fishytime · #**101** 12-12-2011, 03:47 AM

^^^so we should ignore the fact that this guy just got convicted of 18 offenses and support him because none of us can prove were our coral came from?

shouldnt you, being in the industry, be supportive of a conviction off such offenses......HE DIDNT HAVE THE PROPER PAPERWORK!.....anyone who makes the importation of cites regulated specimens knows the paper-trail that NEEDS to be followed........it not like he was like, "dang! I done forgot to the fill out and file the paperwork".......If this is your business then you KNOW what avenues you need to follow to legally import things.....

Sad part is, is he will not see jail time and likely be forced to pay a nominal fine (especially if this was his first trip through the system) and will still be selling stuff tomorrow......this is where the customer can make a difference

chandigz · #**102** 12-12-2011, 03:55 AM

I agree, him not having permits was illegal and he should pay. Importing these species is not. The reason these species (CITIES schedule II)require CITIES permits is that they are on watch list a quota system in order to monitor and control export/import so they don't become so endangered that they become a "Banned" (CITIES schedule I species). Not having the permits means that they were not counted in the quotas which could have an impact on the overall outlook of the species and if allowed to continue could make them truely endangered. I agree that an example should be made so that others don't try. None of these species are banned yet. BUT....

Currently there are several special interest groups In the US that are pushing for several coral species including several species of acropora, euphyllia(frogspawn, torch, hammer) and others to be moved from CITIES schedule II to CITIES schedule I. If this happens they would be considered "banned endangered species" and you may require permits to keep the ones you have(grandfathered). If this happens you would not legally be able to import, export, devide or frag(now you would need multiple permits but your new peice would not be grandfathered so it would be illegal), sell, give or transport over state and possible provincial lines. The worst part of this is that it would make captive culturing of these species illegal so if the species did become extinct in wild the it could be gone for good This is what over harvesting because of illegally imported endangered species could lead to.

chandigz · #**103** 12-12-2011, 04:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishytime

^^^so we should ignore the fact that this guy just got convicted of 18 offenses and support him because none of us can prove were our coral came from?

shouldnt you, being in the industry, be supportive of a conviction off such offenses......HE DIDNT HAVE THE PROPER PAPERWORK!.....anyone who makes the importation of cites regulated specimens knows the paper-trail that NEEDS to be followed........it not like he was like, "dang! I done forgot to the fill out and file the paperwork".......If this is your business then you KNOW what avenues you need to follow to legally import things.....

Sad part is, is he will not see jail time and likely be forced to pay a nominal fine (especially if this was his first trip through the system) and will still be selling stuff tomorrow......this is where the customer can make a difference

Like I said in my intial response what he did was wrong. I was not defending him. No where did i say it wasn't wrong. I just wanted to let people know the facts about the species they were keeping. I just wanted to let the people that were saying that they would never keep an endangered species of coral that they should have their facts straight. All hard coral/live rock(Scleractinia sp.)are on the CITIES list. They are there because they are endangered. We all like to point fingers but we need to know the facts. These species can be legaly imported. He did it illegally and its good that he got caught.

Delphinus · #**104** 12-12-2011, 04:08 AM

CITES, not CITIES!

reefwars · #**105** 12-12-2011, 04:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delphinus

CITES, not CITIES!

way to stir up trouble tony lol

ppp

fishytime · #**106** 12-12-2011, 04:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delphinus

CITES, not CITIES!

....you crack me up Tony

jtbadco · #**107** 12-12-2011, 04:10 AM

Thank you both for clarifying. It is admitted that we were incorrect about the circumstances of the convictions. Regardless my concern was with his involvement in the hobby and him breaking the law, not what his specific charge was.

I wanted to bring attention to something that should concern us all. My intent was to help inform and support the hobby.

Another point about which I won't speculate too much....What we have heard about here was one set of circumstances where he was investigated and caught and prosecuted. When most criminals are caught,...it is not their first time at bat. I would not be shocked to find out he has committed other acts that he was not caught at.

chandigz · #**108** 12-12-2011, 04:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delphinus

CITES, not CITIES!

Doh!! Got me there.

jtbadco · #**109** 12-12-2011, 04:13 AM

I don't know,...I'm pretty sure it's CITIES.

Delphinus · #**110** 12-12-2011, 04:25 AM

Sitties?