Concerning the new Buy/Sell posting format

[Seriak]

Originally Posted by Zoaelite

I have my Visa card waiting if this is the case .

+1

[Slick Fork]

I don't think it's a matter of making things cheaper for sponsors. I think this is more of a conflict of interest issue and how we handle it. The conflict being someone like Coral Master who sells exclusively frags and a non-sponsoring member who runs a frag system of unknown size. I don't imagine guys like Red Coral or Aqua-Digital really have a large concern as we almost never see people saying "Hey, I brought 15 bubble kings up from the states... who wants one"

SOlutions:
Sponsor favourite is to squash the buy and sell forum to limit competition

Member favourite is going to be to tell the sponsors that they buy advertising space and that's it, no guarantees of non-competition from members.

Right now we're trying to meet in the middle and say guys who magically have 10 "surplus" bubble kings every month are out of line but we're going to try to leave individuals alone. This is great in principal but has to be a nightmare for Mod's, especially if some vendors are very vocal and high maintenance causing a lot of unnecessary "investigations". So, I get the need to track who's hitting the buy/sell forums lots to help with complaints.

If I read correctly, Zoaelite is not proposing a mandatory membership fee or tax... more of a voluntary contribution to allow us to reduce the dependency on sponsors and move to a "you're just buying advertising space" kind of model.

I'll suggest a refinement of this idea. We could introduce varied levels of membership/sponsorship with the perks for paid membership being more priveliges in the buy and sell forums. A quick/rough example:
Level 1: General member very limited # of unique buy/sell threads allowed every month - FREE
Level 2: Preferred member: More unique buy/sell threads every month, indication on avatar or in signature of preferred status. - Cost = $$
Level 3: Sponsor: Own forum, banner adds, indication of sponsorship in profile/avatar/signature. - Cost = $$$$ minus the funds raised by preferred members. So if we have 10 sponsors (Just pulling numbers out of a hat here) who currently pay $1200/year for sponsorship status and we raise $2000 from selling preferred memberships, the sponsors have thier cost offset by$200 each. This would keep board revenues the same, help appease sponsors who might feel slighted and allow guys like reefwars and others to continue as they have been.

In my above example, non-sponsoring actual businesses (Brick and mortar store or website) would still be prohibited from selling/advertising/marketing on the board.

[sphelps]

Zoa, you can't base sponsorship price on member quantity alone, think about target audience and competition. Canadian forum, Canadian market, how many Canreef members are both Canadian and active in the hobby then ask how many sponsors to members do we have. Now ask the same about RC before you compare apples.

Plus Canreef sponsorship is cheap people! A couple lines in a newspaper would cost significantly more and provide significantly less results. And why are we even discussing this? Are sponsors complaining about the cost? And if they are that's between them and Canreef staff.

And there is a big difference between someone like Coral Master and someone with a frag tank. Coral master brings in corals for the sole purpose of fragging them, this is a business not personal propagation, clear as day and that's before you consider a website with a business name which I would assume is registered.

In regards to premium membership to obtain special privileges, IMO dumb, really dumb. To gain such privileges you have remove them from regular membership so you don't gain anything. To actually add things which I have no idea what such things would be you'd have to invest time and money so what's the point there. Donations might be better but if Canreef doesn't need charity why offer it, donate to your food bank or something if you're itching to help someone out.

[reefwars]

Originally Posted by dc4

You cant see it as taxing members if its just an optional fee for special percs as preivously mentioned.

Like I said previously, lots of us here visit regularly and have made friends that are interested in this great, but expensive, hobby. If someone wants to come by and visit the forums and not pay a cent, Im sure they will always be able to do that. Those that have mentioned contributing to a optional user fee, would do so for the added percs (<-misspelled on purpose). Lots of other sites give free monthly draws, discount cards for sponsors, tshirts, stickers, special icons, allowing edits of posts?, etc...

It would be up to the admins/owners of the site to work out what, if anything, would be offered for any optional fees.

Just think of it like having 2 versions of canreef:
Basic Version (no fee): The same canreef that you know and love.
Upgraded version (optional user fee): Beefed up version of canreef with a few extra percs.

Originally Posted by Slick Fork

I don't think it's a matter of making things cheaper for sponsors. I think this is more of a conflict of interest issue and how we handle it. The conflict being someone like Coral Master who sells exclusively frags and a non-sponsoring member who runs a frag system of unknown size. I don't imagine guys like Red Coral or Aqua-Digital really have a large concern as we almost never see people saying "Hey, I brought 15 bubble kings up from the states... who wants one"

SOlutions:
Sponsor favourite is to squash the buy and sell forum to limit competition

Member favourite is going to be to tell the sponsors that they buy advertising space and that's it, no guarantees of non-competition from members.

Right now we're trying to meet in the middle and say guys who magically have 10 "surplus" bubble kings every month are out of line but we're going to try to leave individuals alone. This is great in principal but has to be a nightmare for Mod's, especially if some vendors are very vocal and high maintenance causing a lot of unnecessary "investigations". So, I get the need to track who's hitting the buy/sell forums lots to help with complaints.

If I read correctly, Zoaelite is not proposing a mandatory membership fee or tax... more of a voluntary contribution to allow us to reduce the dependency on sponsors and move to a "you're just buying advertising space" kind of model.

I'll suggest a refinement of this idea. We could introduce varied levels of membership/sponsorship with the perks for paid membership being more priveliges in the buy and sell forums. A quick/rough example:
Level 1: General member very limited # of unique buy/sell threads allowed every month - FREE
Level 2: Preferred member: More unique buy/sell threads every month, indication on avatar or in signature of preferred status. - Cost = $$
Level 3: Sponsor: Own forum, banner adds, indication of sponsorship in profile/avatar/signature. - Cost = $$$$ minus the funds raised by preferred members. So if we have 10 sponsors (Just pulling numbers out of a hat here) who currently pay $1200/year for sponsorship status and we raise $2000 from selling preferred memberships, the sponsors have thier cost offset by$200 each. This would keep board revenues the same, help appease sponsors who might feel slighted and allow guys like reefwars and others to continue as they have been.

In my above example, non-sponsoring actual businesses (Brick and mortar store or website) would still be prohibited from selling/advertising/marketing on the board.

i completely agree with this , there should be an optional membership fee which in turn allows for certain extras. it wouldnt be mandatory , it would be something someone wanted to do.

for someone new to the hobby paying a fee woulnt be interestig but to members who have been here a while or in the hobby for a long time would enjoy it.

[Slick Fork]

Originally Posted by sphelps

And there is a big difference between someone like Coral Master and someone with a frag tank. Coral master brings in corals for the sole purpose of fragging them, this is a business not personal propagation, clear as day and that's before you consider a website with a business name which I would assume is registered.

That's kind of what I was getting at. The problem seems to be vendors are getting their nose out of joint because of perceived competition from members and causing a lot of headaches for moderators and Titus. I used Coral Master simply because when I think specialized frags, I think Coral Master (not to suggest that he is the one complaining!)

[Seriak]

Originally Posted by sphelps

In regards to premium membership to obtain special privileges, IMO dumb, really dumb. To gain such privileges you have remove them from regular membership so you don't gain anything. To actually add things which I have no idea what such things would be you'd have to invest time and money so what's the point there. Donations might be better but if Canreef doesn't need charity why offer it, donate to your food bank or something if you're itching to help someone out.

As Dc4 said.

Lots of other sites give free monthly draws, discount cards for sponsors, tshirts, stickers, special icons, allowing edits of posts?, etc...

[sphelps]

Originally Posted by Seriak

As Dc4 said.

Lots of other sites give free monthly draws, discount cards for sponsors, tshirts, stickers, special icons, allowing edits of posts?, etc...

That all costs money and time my friend, you don't gain anything. Sponsors can't be expected to just donate items and credit to the site because the site brings in more money. As for editing you think mods will let you break rules cause you pay $20 a year. It wasn't removed so that it could be purchased back. Other sites may need donations to keep it going, or at least that's what the shady guy behind the scenes is telling you, Canreef isn't like that and I don't know why anyone would want it that way.

[FishyFishy!]

Originally Posted by sphelps

That all costs money and time my friend, you don't gain anything. Sponsors can't be expected to just donate items and credit to the site because the site brings in more money. As for editing you think mods will let you break rules cause you pay $20 a year. It wasn't removed so that it could be purchased back.

haha well said

[Seriak]

Originally Posted by sphelps

That all costs money and time my friend, you don't gain anything. Sponsors can't be expected to just donate items and credit to the site because the site brings in more money. As for editing you think mods will let you break rules cause you pay $20 a year. It wasn't removed so that it could be purchased back. Other sites may need donations to keep it going, or at least that's what the shady guy behind the scenes is telling you, Canreef isn't like that and I don't know why anyone would want it that way.

Those were simply examples. Avatars and special icons wouldn't cost anything. If the amount got high enough, they could put part of the proceeds towards the purchase of a piece of equipment to give away. Members could donate frags towards a draw to contributing members. If part of the vendor sponsorship fee was lowered due to member contributions, maybe some vendors would donate items or pass along discounts as a thank you to those members. These are all just ideas. You just have to think outside the box.

[sphelps]

Originally Posted by Slick Fork

That's kind of what I was getting at. The problem seems to be vendors are getting their nose out of joint because of perceived competition from members and causing a lot of headaches for moderators and Titus. I used Coral Master simply because when I think specialized frags, I think Coral Master (not to suggest that he is the one complaining!)

Yeap wasn't disagreeing, just throwing in my two bits is all. If vendors can't see the difference and in turn complain about high vendor fees then perhaps they shouldn't be in business anymore as they obviously aren't very good at it. Canreef has shut down plenty of people who are on the real verge of business practices and I'm not aware of anyone that gets away with it for long.