travisc's ultimate new-to-the-hobby newbie build. Dig it!

[Myka]

Originally Posted by sphelps

Looks like you'll need a bigger sump to fit two but I'm pretty sure you probably need a bigger sump anyway . If you loose just an inch off the main display that's 21+ gallons alone plus the extra volume from plumbing, skimmer and the other tank you're setting up. Doesn't quite add up properly in my head so be careful of that, might need check valves as a minimum.

Yeah, there's a few things about the sump too...

Like you said, there's probably not enough volume to catch the back flow from the plumbing, but also those 2 filter socks are going to plug up FAST with that much volume of water. Looks like a Concept built sump...they are good to deal with.

Originally Posted by travisc

I purchased everything from Golds. They had to order in everything tho...
the skimmer has been in fresh water for 2 days as we water tested. The 2 cannister filters are new in box (well one in the box as the 2nd box was taken out with the recycling this morning. ..)

I like the idea of adding another ATI skimmer then having to try to sell everything. One of the cannister filters were opened before I received it and the tubing and hoses were removed. I called Golds to see if I could exchange it for store credit for fish since I don't need the second one and that it was opened with parts removed. He said he would check with his supplier...so I don't think taking everything back is an option

You should be able to at least take the one back for store credit since it was not complete. There's no reason you should be stuck with it.

[travisc]

Skimmer....sump...ugh!! Thanks for the extra grey hairs!! Lol

[Myka]

Originally Posted by travisc

Skimmer....sump...ugh!! Thanks for the extra grey hairs!! Lol

You should have come here first!

Sorry, this always happens on someone's first build, it's just that your first build is huge so your mistakes will be huge.

[travisc]

I texted Matt at concept to see if the sump is large enough to hold a second skimmer. Physically there is room in the compartment for another ATI 250. Cost wise it would be another $800 ish to purchase another one. Then there would be no haste of returning or trying to sell equipment. The 2 skimmers then should be more then enough? Then really the only concern would be keeping a good eye on the socks ?

I really appreciate everyone's help, advice and praise on the tank. It may be a bit discouraging now but benificial in the long run. I may need a week on the beach to distress before I finish the set up though! Lol

[Myka]

Originally Posted by travisc

I texted Matt at concept to see if the sump is large enough to hold a second skimmer. Physically there is room in the compartment for another ATI 250. Cost wise it would be another $800 ish to purchase another one. Then there would be no haste of returning or trying to sell equipment. The 2 skimmers then should be more then enough? Then really the only concern would be keeping a good eye on the socks ?

I really appreciate everyone's help, advice and praise on the tank. It may be a bit discouraging now but benificial in the long run. I may need a week on the beach to distress before I finish the set up though! Lol

Travis, the concern with the sump size is when there is a power out or the return and skimmer is shut off there will be back flow into the sump. The operating water level of the tank will be higher than the non-operating water level of the tank. All that volume, plus the volume in the pipes will back flow into the sump. Your sump size compared to the size of the display tank is very small, so there is a concern that you do not have enough empty volume in the sump to hold the back flow without the sump overflowing. Some people use check valves to prevent back flow, but they need to be cleaned regularly or they will leak, so a long power outage would mean a wet floor. The best option is to have a sump large enough to hold the full volume of back flow.

As far as the 2nd skimmer goes, you would want to run the skimmers in parallel rather than putting them both in the same chamber. If you put them both in that same chamber then they will be re-skimming water that the other has already skimmed and will thus be less efficient. The footprint of the skimmer is just over 16 x 10"? So if the sump is say 22" wide then you could put the skimmers beside eachother with a divider running between them and the water would flow through each section separately and prevent them re-skimming.

If you can forgive my prehistoric 2 min drawing...this is what I mean (use your imagination for the baffles between the skimmers and the return pump haha).

[sphelps]

I'd say the twin skimmers would be plenty and the second could be added later, no need to rush out and blow the $800 now. There's plenty of big salt tanks out there running no skimmer so I'm not going to say it's an absolute requirement but something to consider none the less as it would be quite beneficial. It also sounds like it will be cheaper to buy two skimmers rather than one larger one, plus if you every sold them you'd do much better with the smaller models.

For the sump volume just make sure nothing bad happens when you cut the power. Might be fine but to me looks like it runs around 2/3rds full so you have around 23 gallons of space at an absolute max. 1 inch from the display is 21 gallons so when you add the other factors you're short for sure. I also usually budget 2" from the display to be conservative as the other-flow teeth can clog up with algae and raise the water level a bit plus siphon back-flow will usually drop the water level in the display below the overflow. Check valves help but I don't recommend relying on them.

[sphelps]

Originally Posted by Myka

As far as the 2nd skimmer goes, you would want to run the skimmers in parallel rather than putting them both in the same chamber. If you put them both in that same chamber then they will be re-skimming water that the other has already skimmed and will thus be less efficient. The footprint of the skimmer is just over 16 x 10"? So if the sump is say 22" wide then you could put the skimmers beside eachother with a divider running between them and the water would flow through each section separately and prevent them re-skimming.

Nah, that's a bit silly IMO. Yes theoretically makes some sense but with intakes put at one end and outputs put at the other and water flowing through the sump there's really no way of re-skimming water. And even so, so what? The water is constantly circulating through the sump, it'll get skimmed eventually.

[travisc]

I shut off all power to the pumps last night and the sump held all the water until the main tank level got below the overflow box. So that is good.

The sump slot is large enough for 2 skimmers but not wide enough to run them parallel as in the drawing. They would only be able to sit side by side

[Myka]

Originally Posted by sphelps

Nah, that's a bit silly IMO. Yes theoretically makes some sense but with intakes put at one end and outputs put at the other and water flowing through the sump there's really no way of re-skimming water. And even so, so what? The water is constantly circulating through the sump, it'll get skimmed eventually.

What's wrong with efficiency? The sump he has now would not fit them side by side, they'd be one after the other, they would definitely be re-skimming. I wouldn't buy a new sump just for this mod though.

Originally Posted by travisc

I shut off all power to the pumps last night and the sump held all the water until the main tank level got below the overflow box. So that is good.

The sump slot is large enough for 2 skimmers but not wide enough to run them parallel as in the drawing. They would only be able to sit side by side

It all fits? That's good! How much extra space do you have? The skimmers will have volume in them as well, so they will add a bit to the sump when it's turned off too. As I said, I wouldn't go buy a new sump just for the parallel mod, but it would be ideal if you had to buy a bigger sump anyway.

As far as the socks go, you could put some egg crate on top of the sock holder and put some flat filter media in there instead if the socks clog up too fast or you get tired of washing them all the time.

[travisc]

I turned off everything, pump, skimmer and there was still a fair amount of room left in the sump before it would overflow. [IMG][/IMG]