Go

[paddyob]

Originally Posted by zoaElite

I'm simply pointing out as a race we have quite a few downfalls prior to putting living animals in key chains for entertainment, sure it's horrendous but the slaughter of 300,000 individuals so we can have moderately priced gas is in it's own league.

Ohh and to the board!

I agree with you on that aspect Levi... but I don't think people are concerned about Darfur (no offence meant) as there are more pressing things... like Libya.

Yes, it sucks this practice goes on. There are really, really poor practices here in Canada as well.

[Slick Fork]

While I understand the sentiment that there are more serious things than ziplock goldfish and turtles on keyrings in this world, I have difficulty dismissing this as something I shouldn't feel revolted about.

I also appreciate the idea that we shouldn't be attacking chinese culture, BUT... Chinese and (more broadly) Asian culture seems to have an enormous number of these traditions that are horribly destructive to the environment. Does anyone here remember the big fuss in Ontario in the 90's over poaching of black bears for their livers? Shark fin soup? Overfishing of Tuna and Japanese whaling ships? The list is seemingly endless, and this keychain thing is just one more item on said list. Where is the line between tolerating it because "it's their culture and they think it's acceptable" and acknowledging that these practices are incredibly barbaric and destructive and need to stop.

[don.ald]

not sure, but i dont see it as attacking another culture. we tend not to find it acceptable and thats ok. its also ok to speak out. as for shark fins and overfishing tuna. well, thats worldwide. including northamerica and euope.

aisans are not the only people that have distructive traditions. for example the whales. our first nations peps here on the west coast hunt whales for ceremonial purposes yearly. (although they use the carcus it is controversial)

our fishermen also shoot seals regularly while fishing.
what about seal hunts?
the list goes on. my point not just asians. pick any culture and you will find traditions or not, that are distructive.

Originally Posted by Slick Fork

While I understand the sentiment that there are more serious things than ziplock goldfish and turtles on keyrings in this world, I have difficulty dismissing this as something I shouldn't feel revolted about.

I also appreciate the idea that we shouldn't be attacking chinese culture, BUT... Chinese and (more broadly) Asian culture seems to have an enormous number of these traditions that are horribly destructive to the environment. Does anyone here remember the big fuss in Ontario in the 90's over poaching of black bears for their livers? Shark fin soup? Overfishing of Tuna and Japanese whaling ships? The list is seemingly endless, and this keychain thing is just one more item on said list. Where is the line between tolerating it because "it's their culture and they think it's acceptable" and acknowledging that these practices are incredibly barbaric and destructive and need to stop.

[Slick Fork]

Originally Posted by don.ald

not sure, but i dont see it as attacking another culture. we tend not to find it acceptable and thats ok. its also ok to speak out. as for shark fins and overfishing tuna. well, thats worldwide. including northamerica and euope.

aisans are not the only people that have distructive traditions. for example the whales. our first nations peps here on the west coast hunt whales for ceremonial purposes yearly. (although they use the carcus it is controversial)

our fishermen also shoot seals regularly while fishing.
what about seal hunts?
the list goes on. my point not just asians. pick any culture and you will find traditions or not, that are distructive.

No disagreement... every culture has it's dirty practices. However, North American and European cultures tend to have more of a social conscience with these things. You won't find many people in Calgary or New York (outside of the Asian communities) who would be really enthusiastic about having Shark fin soup, or Bear liver pills, or Rhino Horn powder, etc. Yet in Asia, the market for these things is enormous. I read a relatively recent national geographic article that discussed the illegal trade in endangered species parts, and the percentage of poaching due to the demand for traditional asian medicines was astonishing. Culturally, they seem to have a much lower respect or awareness about the impact they have on the planet than we do.

Native "ancestral" rights are a bit of a farce, but that's a whole other can of worms that I think we should steer clear of in this thread

Anyways, my beef is when we see something like this and call it for what it is, Barbaric, people get all upset and say it's their culture and we shouldn't criticize because we're not perfect ourselves.

[freezetyle]

Originally Posted by mws

It's not any different to me then bettas in a plastic cups we look at in everystore in Canada, or puppies in a glass boxes in petland.
And yes China has a bigger problem them a goldfish in a key chain, just search Chinese live animals market or dogs for meat/fur trade.
How about a bonsai kitty? Fully operated business in New York City with website and phone#.And apparently there is a thing like appropriate Bonsai Kitticulture permits from the U.S. government from reading there website.http://www.ding.net/bonsaikitten/bkmethod.html

you know that website is a joke right

http://www.wired.com/politics/law/news/2001/02/41733

[daniella3d]

sounds like an hoax? this is nearly an impossible thing. The fish would die in a few hours or days...who would be dumb enough to buy this?

Hmmm.. does not look real.

Originally Posted by imcosmokramer

This is completely unacceptable! I can't believe it's legal.

http://reeftools.com/news/key-chains...tles-terrible/

[Maverick00]

Originally Posted by daniella3d

sounds like an hoax? this is nearly an impossible thing. The fish would die in a few hours or days...who would be dumb enough to buy this?

Hmmm.. does not look real.

that was my first impression as well, but was unable to find anything about a hoax. Hard to believe.

[MarkoD]

did you guys hear abou these house hippos?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBfi8OEz0rA

[mws]

Originally Posted by freezetyle

you know that website is a joke right

http://www.wired.com/politics/law/news/2001/02/41733

Thanks for posting this, made me feel a lot better.

[RuGlu6]

Originally Posted by jon.smolders

So how come we don't have a problem with betta's in tiny little cups? Or goldfish fed as feederfish? Or kept in tiny fishbowls where the water is never changed? Or goldfish or bettas used a centre pieces in weddings.. afterwhich half are taken home to die, while the other half are flushed? Or the goldfish put in blenders or swallowed whole by 12 year old kids?

I'm not saying it's right... but advocating for the rights of maybe a few thousand goldfish sold in China is very low on my priority list compared to human injustices such as genocides, abuse of women, children, and the elderly, and religious persecution (which is quite a problem in China, BTW).

I appreciate the link to the article.... thats what Canreef is for, but lets not start lobbying for laws against crualty to goldfish, or we may end up with laws that restrict our hobby! Imagine going to jail for because you "neglected" your tank for too long and a fish died...

Just my two cents...

Yes exactly my point, how is what we do different? we are keepeing fish in small glass container with half dirty water, fish didnt have a say or a chance.
It has been taken out of its invironment and kept in prison for life.
Hipocrasy is North american way of life. what we do is ok because we think is ok. but not what they do is not ok lets bomb them and that is our way of helping others.