Funny thing about the LFS and the "relinquiesh the CITES" comment

[Aquattro]

Originally Posted by wickedfrags.com

Ok let me explain.

I want to clarify to all those who read the previous thread that it is in no way reasonable for a hobbyist to expect th LFS to expect to just hand out such a permit. Heck - even a Canadian wholesaler/re-seller will not provide you with that!

If anyone for any reason felt that this was reasonable, and perhaps chose to order through an online company that could provide such a document as they import directly from overseas (and there are some) - well this could mean money out of my pocket. Unfair in my opinion - just wanted to clear that up!

Yes Dave, I agree it's not a reasonable request to see these documents. However, I have a copy of a note where you asked for the same documents.
I'm really getting annoyed with this whole topic Dave, and these posts are getting old. Please just give it a rest.

[Scythanith]

Originally Posted by Aquattro

Yes Dave, I agree it's not a reasonable request to see these documents. However, I have a copy of a note where you asked for the same documents.
I'm really getting annoyed with this whole topic Dave, and these posts are getting old. Please just give it a rest.

So you don't think it's fair to ask for proof of lineage? This is about lineage corals, not just ordinary corals after all isn't it?

I know your personal stance Aquattro, you don't care where it comes from, if you like it you buy it. That's your personal view on the topic and far be it from me to try and change your mind! But some people would like to see a "paper trail" to prove lineage. And they will ask for it from any retailer trying to sell it as such.

There is no winning this battle for either side.

[24storm]

I think that the lineage info is important in this situation when you are going to buying something that is branded Tyree or ORA.

I have followed all these thread and i think they are very important and that some of these questions should be answered.

If things are found to be done illegally in the extreme case this could effect all of us who keep coral in our tanks.

There will be people who are not interested in hearing anything about any of this and there will be others who will be very interested and passionate about the situation. I think that the first thread would have been good to have around as it posed alot of good questions in it.

Originally Posted by Scythanith

So you don't think it's fair to ask for proof of lineage? This is about lineage corals, not just ordinary corals after all isn't it?

I know your personal stance Aquattro, you don't care where it comes from, if you like it you buy it. That's your personal view on the topic and far be it from me to try and change your mind! But some people would like to see a "paper trail" to prove lineage. And they will ask for it from any retailer trying to sell it as such.

There is no winning this battle for either side.

[Aquattro]

If someone wants a paper trail, ask the seller. In private. There has been enough arguing here about it, and it's now run past it's course.

[Zoaelite]

Does anyone know, besides CITES if there any other system which can act to verify the legitity of stock? When Tyree releases a frag, does it come with a certificate or something specifying its authenticity? It seems a little silly to ever ask for something like this, just a whole lot of extra work. If the coral looks exactly like the LE Red Planet Acro. then would you not trust it too be, thats what the vendor rating forums are for right?
Levi

[wickedfrags]

I have NEVER directly imported corals into this country, as such I do not receive the documents. Read my post above - I asked for the documents for business purposes and they would not provide them!!!

Now if I did import from another country, well I would have the documents.

Originally Posted by Aquattro

Yes Dave, I agree it's not a reasonable request to see these documents. However, I have a copy of a note where you asked for the same documents.
I'm really getting annoyed with this whole topic Dave, and these posts are getting old. Please just give it a rest.

People have asked - they have not received any info from the person who did the importing other than "trust me" Hence interest in the discussion remains as they search for information before making their next person. Read a lot - think for yourself right!

Originally Posted by Aquattro

If someone wants a paper trail, ask the seller. In private. There has been enough arguing here about it, and it's now run past it's course.

No such system at all - you are taking the persons word for it.

What some people are after is just some proof that these were imported from the US in the last little while. We already know Steve Tyree does not expert himself to canada - and that is ok becuase we need to trust the person doing the selling. We all know they are mostly from indo at some point, however these particular pieces were re-exported from the US, so the importer should be able to say ya, we have the import permit from the US into Canada.

Originally Posted by zoaElite

Does anyone know, besides CITES if there any other system which can act to verify the legitity of stock? When Tyree releases a frag, does it come with a certificate or something specifying its authenticity? It seems a little silly to ever ask for something like this, just a whole lot of extra work. If the coral looks exactly like the LE Red Planet Acro. then would you not trust it too be, thats what the vendor rating forums are for right?
Levi

[fencer]

Correct me if I am wrong CITES permits are given when corals cross international borders. I have heard that in some cases (not dealing with coral) Fish and wildlife my want documentation (and CITES) if material is sold inter provincially. So if I sold a coral to the states I would have to have CITES documentation. The only documentaton I could give them is a reciept form the store I bought it from. I think that might be enough to satisfy fish and wildlife. I think the intent of CITES was to monitor and control the movement of livestock from the wild to the wholesaler and not from the LFS to the hobbyist. As for ORA you could provide DNA to establish lineage of the coral but that is going over board and cost some $$$ to do.

[Zoaelite]

That paper would just say its a coral that's been exported right, not a "LE Tyree piece"? Fundamentally I think a lot of the confusion here has to do with the fact that there is no way to actually verify this. If the system were cut and dry and everyone had access to it then great bang problem fixed, but I don't foresee that japanning any time soon. Then again, when you purchase a pure bred dog you pay allot extra to have the papers go along with it, when you purchase a frag that costs 13X what something similar would cost you would assume that there would be some sort of paper to go along with that.
Levi