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lastlight 12-09-2011 08:17 PM

effective way to kill aiptasia (now with moar lasers!)
 
So with more room to have a look at my pre-established rocks I had been finding a few small buggers in addition to the large 3 or 4 I have known about for months (and did nothing about because they were not easily gotten to).

1. grab a wooden bbq skewer
2. remove top of your bottle of crazy glue
3. DIP and coat the first inch of your skewer
4. sneak up on pest and lay the skewer across it and twist the skewer

The glue forms a skin so my first few attempts were fails. Then I found that continuing to rotate the thing does a great job of breaking that skin and coats the vermin. I've killed 6 this way including two that were far underneath a colony's 'umbrella'. With this technique access just means a hole or gap you can horizontally insert your skewer.

Only have 1 left and it's moved within the rockwork and lived thru three 2-part epoxy attacks. It's glue time!

Money pit 12-09-2011 08:47 PM

I've always used Kalc a syringe and a piece airline tube. This has worked good for me until this tank. They just keep coming back, so I'll give your method a try, sounds like a good plan of attack.

globaldesigns 12-09-2011 08:47 PM

Personally I have always used a syringe and Kalk.

I take about 5ml of water, mix with about 1ml of Kalk and then suck it in the syringe. I turn off all pumps to calm the tank down, then go to work.

If I can actually stab the bugger I do, but if it pulls into the rock, I inject the rock area where it is with the Kalk and then also lay some of the mixture on the surface. It always works for me on the first try everytime.

Once applied I leave the tank calm for about 15 minutes or so, then power everything back up. Kalk will then be lifted and float around to eventually dissapear, but always works. Only catch is that if you have too many pests, then you need to do this in many attempts, as you don't want to add too muck Kalk to the tank.

You can go to shoppers to buy the syringes, I just bought 3 new ones with larger blunt needles for $1.62 incl/GST.

lastlight 12-09-2011 09:05 PM

Oh I thought you had to actually inject for kalk to work hence me never trying it. Sounds cheaper too so I may give the traditional method a shot if I find any new ones.

daniella3d 12-09-2011 09:09 PM

I use aiptasia X but it's expensive and they keep coming back. Your tric is good but must be pretty hard to do on the tiny buggers that hide within zoanthids colonies. I hate those with a vengance. They anoy my zoanthids and yet they are so small that they are very hard to kill as they retract too fast. It is also tricky to put aiptasia X or any other stuff in a zoanthid colony, so it is a real bummer. I am thinking of getting a few berghia.

lastlight 12-09-2011 09:17 PM

Luckilly I can't keep zoas alive for the most part :lol: Hoping a larger playground for my tank means the Kole's harassing grazing will be spread out and they can flourish.

globaldesigns 12-09-2011 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lastlight (Post 659139)
Oh I thought you had to actually inject for kalk to work hence me never trying it. Sounds cheaper too so I may give the traditional method a shot if I find any new ones.

Me thinks injecting is the best, but I have never had an issue with injecting around and layering on top. I think the key to my success is that I leave the talk calm for a bit, and the pest starts to come back out and injests.

Cheap and effective, give it a try.

globaldesigns 12-09-2011 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daniella3d (Post 659142)
I use aiptasia X but it's expensive and they keep coming back. Your tric is good but must be pretty hard to do on the tiny buggers that hide within zoanthids colonies. I hate those with a vengance. They anoy my zoanthids and yet they are so small that they are very hard to kill as they retract too fast. It is also tricky to put aiptasia X or any other stuff in a zoanthid colony, so it is a real bummer. I am thinking of getting a few berghia.

That I can't comment on, as I have no more zoa's... My hippo tang developed a taste for them and basicaly ate thousands of exotic ones I had. Hence I have no more, except for the odd pest one.

Nudi's work well, I bought 2 for my sump, and they bred. They cleaned up the sump really well. But, they died off, because they had no more food. Time has passed, and some aptaisa have come back in the sump. I don't bother anymore, there are not many, and my DT is clean of them. I just keep on top of things.

Parker 12-10-2011 12:47 AM

I have a file fish that doesn't eat them, I have peppermint shrimp that don't eat them. I use Kalk paste a well, I coat them and it seems to work.

monocus 12-10-2011 01:50 AM

aptasia
 
i always use berghia-tried peppermint shrimp-never worked,kalk paste or joes juice just released all the daughter cells,injected them with lemon juice.at least the berghia go everywhere and i don't have to do any work

Beverly 12-10-2011 01:57 AM

I don't think it matters what you inject them with - kalk, vinegar, liquid calcium, strontium - anything that's toxic to them when injected but reef-friendly should do the trick. I inject them when they're small and make sure I inject all the way in. It might take two or three injections to kill them dead so they detach and can be removed from the tank. Powerheads off, of course.

Reef Pilot 12-10-2011 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Parker (Post 659214)
I have a file fish that doesn't eat them, I have peppermint shrimp that don't eat them.

My tank was totally infested with hundreds of aiptasia,... everywhere.... I got a Copperband, but he wouldn't touch them. Then I got a couple Pearlscales, and after a few weeks, they started to pick at them.

Three months later, you couldn't find any aiptasia in my tank. And what's great also, the Pearlscales taught the Copperband to eat them, too, and he started hunting them as well, and helped clean them out of the deeper holes with his longer beak.

Lance 12-10-2011 02:16 AM

I'm convinced you'll never really get rid of them until you get yourself an Aiptasia-eating critter. I've been fighting them in my 90g since day 1; I swear I've used every method there is, (kalk paste, Joe's Juice, Aiptasia-X, boiling water, lemon juice, sodium hydroxide, epoxy, and the zapper). I can keep the population down but if I don't keep at them constantly they just come back with a vengeance.
I have a CBB in the 225g who has a taste for them and haven't had a problem since I got him. I move smaller rock infested with the little bastards from the 90 to the big tank and within days he has eaten them all............. I love that little yellow guy!

daniella3d 12-10-2011 02:23 AM

How long do you have the copperband? Usually what we hear is that they eat all the aiptasias and then die. I am wondering if it is not toxic for them and slowly kill them?

Mine does not touch any aiptasia and I have him for a year.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lance (Post 659241)
I have a CBB in the 225g who has a taste for them and haven't had a problem since I got him. I move smaller rock infested with the little bastards from the 90 to the big tank and within days he has eaten them all............. I love that little yellow guy!


Lance 12-10-2011 02:31 AM

I got it from a fellow reefer in May 2009. How long she had it for I don't know. It eats all fresh or frozen meaty foods but will not touch flakes or pellets.

The Grizz 12-10-2011 02:35 AM

I bought a CBB from a fellow reefer and damn it's got an apatite for apitasia & those little white feather dusters ( had thousands ) I have a zapper for my FOWLR & office tank, tried the kalk paste & apitasia X as well but nothing is as good as Buckbeek( my CBB ).

lastlight 12-10-2011 02:59 AM

Sorry to have mislead you guys. Seems I have to wait 48 hrs to make a call. Half of the buggers survived the crazy glue @#$%!

Parker 12-10-2011 03:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Grizz (Post 659252)
I bought a CBB from a fellow reefer and damn it's got an apatite for apitasia & those little white feather dusters ( had thousands ) I have a zapper for my FOWLR & office tank, tried the kalk paste & apitasia X as well but nothing is as good as Buckbeek( my CBB ).


I've been patiently waiting to find a CBB that's eating in stores, I haven't had any luck so far.

The Grizz 12-10-2011 03:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Parker (Post 659264)
I've been patiently waiting to find a CBB that's eating in stores, I haven't had any luck so far.

I tried one from LFS, it was eating just fine for them but then to move it to my bag arse tank full of crazy arse tangs it just would not eat. The one I have now will even eat a pellet if it is the small ones, it swims around the tank with it half way in its mouth sucking like a jaw breaker.

Delphinus 12-10-2011 03:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lance (Post 659241)
I'm convinced you'll never really get rid of them until you get yourself an Aiptasia-eating critter.

I agree. Actually this is even more true than you might think; even with an aiptaisa eating critter they are never really eradicated; they are just constantly eaten so you don't see them. Seen it twice now where removal of the aiptasia-eater just saw the aiptasia bounce back within a few weeks (even if nothing was added).

If injection is the method of choice, feed them first with some mysis. They engorge themselves and then it's harder to retreat into the ittybitty holes (they still will but at least it slows them down some).

martinmcnally 12-10-2011 04:29 AM

Found this website that will ship Berghias to Canada. I'm going to order some as soon as the holidays are over to clean up my tank.

http://www.saltyunderground.com/inde...ath=6&CDpath=7

daniella3d 12-10-2011 04:35 AM

Ok but is it a proper time of the year to order them? Even with a heat pad, would it not be too cold as they are sensitive and delicate creatures?

Quote:

Originally Posted by martinmcnally (Post 659294)
Found this website that will ship Berghias to Canada. I'm going to order some as soon as the holidays are over to clean up my tank.

http://www.saltyunderground.com/inde...ath=6&CDpath=7


The Grizz 12-10-2011 04:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by martinmcnally (Post 659294)
Found this website that will ship Berghias to Canada. I'm going to order some as soon as the holidays are over to clean up my tank.

http://www.saltyunderground.com/inde...ath=6&CDpath=7

I'll go in for some too.

Borderjumper 12-10-2011 05:13 AM

Bought some from Salty Underground and they are doing really well. The shipping is a small fortune but it's next day delivery.. BUT don't be surprised if they get hung up in customs for an additional day. Mine did, but luckily it was nice weather and they all made it. I ordered 20. I put 6 in my little cube, 6 in the RSM 250 and 7 in the big tank. Four months later the big tank is still full of aptasia, the cube is completely cleared of aptasia as is the RSM. Once the aptasia are gone the nudies starve to death, BUT they really start searching once they get low n aptasia, and you can find most of them on the glass. I was able to find all 6 from the cube and 5 or 6 from the RSM, along with a dozen babies.:mrgreen:

I'm thinking the reason they flourished in two tanks but didn't in the third is the big tank had a Bangia Cardinal. Since both the banger and nudies are nocturnal, and the banger hunted ALL night, I think she either ate them, or tried to eat them.

I gave the banger away, and have put most of the gathered up nudies in that tank, crossing fingers..

I was really surprised just how big these guys get.. Good inch and pretty meaty too..

Heres a couple of pictures taken of some Im raising. Theres a standard frag plug in the first one for size reference. the second pic is of a couple of young ones already laying eggs.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y24...a/IMG_0302.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y24...a/IMG_0298.jpg

bignose 12-10-2011 06:35 AM

I had a couple in my tank I couldn't inject so I covered them over in 2 part epoxy about 2" proximity around them. No more aiptasia so far.

lastlight 12-10-2011 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bignose (Post 659337)
I had a couple in my tank I couldn't inject so I covered them over in 2 part epoxy about 2" proximity around them. No more aiptasia so far.

That has worked for me too but can't be done in tight spaces sometimes. Luckilly my glue killed the hard-to-get ones. I'll be a little more generous with my epoxy and add a dab of glue to it as well lol.

Kevotron 12-10-2011 06:52 AM

Ohhh if they only eat Majanos....
i have like maybe 5 aiptasia... vs 200+ Majanos

BigAl07 12-13-2011 04:51 PM

Here's an alternate method of attacking Aptasia, Majano, and almost anything else you can "see" in the tank. I'm going to either build or "borrow" one for my Japanese Clove Polyps that are killing some of my Zoas.


http://youtu.be/Cbk7mA5PuAQ

Delphinus 12-13-2011 05:30 PM

Saw that last week as well. Looked into buying one even, found a few suppliers. :lol:

In my case though, with pets and small kids in the house, and all the males in the house with the exception of the cat being huge science and sci-fi nerds ... this would be one horrible purchase to make (to be filed alongside other epic mistakes of judgment such as "bought the 6 year old a real lightsabre and he accidentally cut his grandma in half" http://youtu.be/TXMX_xm7IRo ).

Obviously you have to be extremely cautious: reflections from the glass are possible so nobody can be in the room with you, including pets; steps to be taken to keep fish away from the spot so they don't get instantly blinded or burnt .. and so on.

I'm also curious if the beam passing through the glass might do some residual damage there as well, perhaps creating a weak spot?

Cool idea though in theory! Come on, it's freakin' LASERS!

lastlight 12-13-2011 05:39 PM

I'll admit I wanted to see what my frontosas would think of a laser pointer once. They took immediate notice and went crazy trying to get it!

I am not sure how you could have that thing shining in there that long and not have a fish notice (see) the end point. Equal parts awesome and risky here.

BigAl07 12-13-2011 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delphinus (Post 660601)
I'm also curious if the beam passing through the glass might do some residual damage there as well, perhaps creating a weak spot?

Cool idea though in theory! Come on, it's freakin' LASERS!

It has zero effect on glass. None what so ever. It "works" from heat and this heat is "absorbed" by darker materials. The darker the material the faster and more intense the heat. The "Beam" passes through the glass as if it's not there at all. There are lasers that can cut glass but they are a highly specialized system and I suspect some other "Trade Secrets" are involved in that endeavor. That's why many of your production glass cutting systems use water-jet rather than laser to cut their projects.

Yes this is a VERY risky process and truly no one else should be home let alone in the same room or in an adjacent room where the beam could be reflected to.

The 2 people I've talked with indicate that something makes the fish "not interested" in the end-point (sound of the boiling flesh maybe?) but none the less precaution needs to be taken to help ensure you don't have a stray "Swim By" event. Lucky for me my tank in question only has 3 fish so putting them in "Time Out" wont be a huge matter.

Madreefer 12-13-2011 06:53 PM

so what is the name of this laser thing and where can it be purchased?

BigAl07 12-13-2011 07:09 PM

I've spoken with (2) people and each of them took a different route. You can buy one ready made or you can save a few $$ and buy a kit.

http://www.dragonlasers.com/catalog/...m-p-16456.html

Be sure and get the corresponding protective goggles, that beam hurts!

and here is a shopping list from the reefer who decided to make his own from a kit
Quote:

Originally Posted by CJO (Post 112475)
OK, with the safety caveats in place, here's what it took to build my laser.

  1. I joined http://laserpointerforums.com to learn more about lasers and to get some discounts.
  2. I purchased the Deluxe 445nm Aura C6 Host Kit with the copper heatsink for $60 +$3 shipping.
  3. I purchased the M140 445nm blue diode with an upgraded copper module for $64 (shipping included). The guy from whom I bought the host kit also has a similar diode and module for a similar price, but I didn't find that out until after I had ordered this one.
  4. I purchased Safety Glasses, a pair of RCR123A Rechargable Batteries and a Battery Charger from Survival Laser for a total of $67 including shipping and a discount for LPF members.


All told, I spent just under $200. I also have an Otterbox that I had purchased a month or two ago that I'm using as a case.

CJ

And here is his "CAUTIONARY Statement re: Laser Use"

Quote:

Originally Posted by CJO (Post 112474)
Before I get into the parts you need, I want to share some aquarium safety tips that are being developed:

Best practices for the use of lasers in aquaria (first draft)

Secure the Area
The lase area should be closed off from any transient traffic to prevent someone from unknowingly entering the area without appropriate eye protection. Any doors should be closed and locked. Any windows should be covered or blinds closed to prevent the escape of reflected laser energy.

Only the laser operator and those required in the process should be allowed in the area. All pets should be removed from the area and prevented for reentering while the laser is in use.

Protective Gear
A high power laser beam striking your eye, or the eye of an observer can result in instant and permanent blindness. Even viewing the beam endpoint without eye protection will cause eye damage. The user and everyone within the viewing or potential reflection areas must be equipped with appropriate eye protection specifically designed for the wavelength laser being used. Sunglasses do not protect against laser light. Laser eye protection is designed to protect against unintentional reflections and endpoint viewing. It is not designed to protect from a laser beam being directed toward the eye. Never look directly at a laser beam or allow it to directly strike your eye. Long sleeves and Nitrile gloves offer an additional layer of protection for the operator.

Identify and Eliminate Reflection Hazards
Using high power lasers in glass and acrylic tanks is virtually guaranteed to create potentially hazardous beam reflections. These beam reflections can cause serious injury. This danger is amplified by the fact that use of the appropriate safety goggles will prevent you from seeing most beam reflections. Positioning the laser at right angles (directly perpendicular) to the tank glass or acrylic should be avoided as unseen laser energy will be reflected directly toward the user. Burns to exposed tissue can occur within seconds.To prevent injury, a low power targeting laser (such as a laser pointer) in a different spectrum that can be seen when using the safety goggles should be utilized to identify any reflections before firing the high power laser.

Identify Backstops
The laser beam will penetrate clean glass or acrylic with virtually no heat being transmitted to the tank material. The beam will quickly (almost instantly) pierce though the targeted item and impact anything behind it. Extreme caution must be exercised to prevent injury to any livestock located behind the targeted item. Painted or dark glass or acrylic surfaces may become heated during lasing.

Reduce Water Flow
Pumps should be turned off during lasering. This limits the cooling effect of water passing over the target thereby increasing the effectiveness of the laser and reducing the firing duration required to achieve the intended results. It also simplifies targeting as the intended pest is motionless.

Protecting Tank Inhabitants
Failure to protect tank inhabitants from repeated viewing the beam endpoint will likely result in blindness to your livestock. Ideally, all livestock should be removed and held in quarantine in a tank protected (covered) from stray laser light until laser treatment is completed. Alternative methods(s) to protect livestock from encountering the beam or end-point include,
  • Physical Barriers - Use of physical barriers to prevent inhabitants from accessing an area being lased and to prevent any laser energy (beam pass-through or reflections) from entering any areas containing livestock.
  • Endpoint Shield - If physically blocking off the area being lased is impractical due to tank features, an end-point shield should be used to prevent inhabitants from viewing the end-beam. In this case, extreme diligence is required to extinguish the beam should any inhabitants approach. This is likely, due to curiosity over the “sizzling” sound created by the operating laser. The endpoint shield can be created by simply as a short section of opaque acrylic (such as painted or frosted.) PVC should not be used as it emits toxins when heated.


Potential Impact to Water Quality
Use of a lasers to eradicate certain marine pests may result in the release of undetermined levels of toxins into the water column. It is believed that the intense heat may break down some of the compounds (such as Palytoxins.) Depending on the type and number of pests being destroyed and the size of the tank, the user should be prepared to use fresh carbon and or execute a water change to reduce any toxins produced.

Securing the Laser When Not in Use
When not in use the laser should be treated and stored as a firearm. When not is use it should be secured in a lockable case with batteries removed. The locked case should be stored out of the reach of children.

CJ


asylumdown 12-13-2011 07:28 PM

I can understand the frustration that aiptasia cause (I would have broken down a system because of them if I wasn't moving anyway), but this seems awfully risky. The potential consequences to you or someone else in your home if safety precautions are ignored for even a second seem relatively high compared to what it's being used for. To quote billsreef over at reef central:

"Just to throw in some perspective from the research side of life, in a university research lab setting, just as much weight is given to safety and tracking of lasers as radioactive material".

and this is an interesting thread from the laser pointer forum. The laser that hit this guy's eye was less powerful than what most people are buying for their aquariums. His avatar picture is what his retina looks like now:
http://laserpointerforums.com/f53/hi...ser-69469.html

Just my two cents, but I'd rather take out and boil all my rocks before risking my, or someone in my home's vision.

BigAl07 12-13-2011 07:40 PM

Yes this could be very dangerous but with proper safety precautions no more dangerous than many of the other things we deal with in and around our tanks.

Goggles goggles goggles! Such a simple piece of equipment could have saved this person some hassle. It's too early to know the full extent of the damage but hopefully he'll have a significant amount of improvement after today's surgery.

Delphinus 12-13-2011 08:01 PM

Good to hear about the glass. I wasn't sure but I guess that makes sense now that I think about it.

In spectacularly poor judgment I must say I am tempted to try this myself. I don't much care about majano and aiptasia or but I must admit the possibility this could work on valonia .. has me wondering. :lol:

lastlight 12-13-2011 08:03 PM

Even tho it's hot... I doubt you'd do more than burst it Tony... and make things worse?

BigAl07 12-13-2011 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delphinus (Post 660636)
Good to hear about the glass. I wasn't sure but I guess that makes sense now that I think about it.

In spectacularly poor judgment I must say I am tempted to try this myself. I don't much care about majano and aiptasia or but I must admit the possibility this could work on valonia .. has me wondering. :lol:

I just read either yesterday or last night about someone who had tried this on valonia with great success. Honestly I worry about popping the shell before the spores inside are completely destroyed by he said that wasn't the case.

It would be interesting to try it on a "Test Tank" just in case.

ROFL
Quote:

In spectacularly poor judgment

Delphinus 12-13-2011 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lastlight (Post 660637)
Even tho it's hot... I doubt you'd do more than burst it Tony... and make things worse?

With my luck ... yeah that's probably true. :neutral:

Oh well it was a nice thought while it lasted! I wonder if any LFS has about 6 or 7 emeralds I could pick up. :lol: Nowhere as cool as a FREAKIN' LASER though!!!! :lol:

asylumdown 12-13-2011 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigAl07 (Post 660630)
...but with proper safety precautions no more dangerous than many of the other things we deal with in and around our tanks.

I don't know if I'd agree with that statement. No one has ever experienced a life altering injury from accidentally dropping a heater on their toe, and normal equipment failures typically result in nothing worse than a tank crash. I know it's hypothetically possible, but something needs to go pretty dramatically wrong for a person to get electrocuted or otherwise seriously injured by normal equipment or chemicals. All it takes for a lasing session to end in tragedy is sweaty hands and a momentary lapse in concentration. When was the last time any of us heard of someone being seriously injured by their tank equipment? Ask the same question about lasers and the answer is 'last Tuesday'.

These lasers can permanently alter your, or someone else's life if mishandled for even one half of a second. My dad had an ocular aneurism in his right eye three years ago. It's not the same thing as laser injury, but the functional result was the same. The effect it has had on his quality of life has been nothing short of devastating.

Ultimately people will probably do it, and to be honest I was tempted until I read that thread on the laser forum. More than anything I know these threads are searchable on google so I just want to make sure that any conversation regarding these things for aquarium purposes have enough posts about the dangers so others who aren't necessarily members of the boards get a complete picture of the risks when they look for info.


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