Car lighting help - Adding aftermarket LED Day time running lights
 

Well since the idiots on the car forum seem to be as obnoxious as ever and totally useless I thought id try here, hey why not! People here do all sorts of lighting and wiring with tanks... why not cars?

So I have a Mitsubishi RVR - 2013.
I have installed HIDs to replace all front lighting. Fogs, Headlights, and highbeams.
This vehicle uses the same single filament bulb for DTR's as headlight, just half the current for DTR's so their not as bright. With the roll of my switch it provides full current = brighter light (with halogens atleast)
Because the HID's don't tolerate that, when my switch is on DTR they flicker, and are steady when I have Headlights switched on.
I want to purchase aftermarket LED's to use as daytime running lights so I don't have to drive around with my headlights on all the time.

How would I wire something like that in so it all still works off the same switch?
Do I need to pull my DTR fuse or something like that then wire the DTR's off a relay direct to battery? but I keep seeing some of those diagrams being connected to another light wire somehow...
I don't know cars... this is confusing for me!
Diagrams, Videos, whatever, help is much appreciated!!!

If you have a separate DTR relay, I think you could run your new lights off of it, but this may involve re-wiring your HIDs as I suspect the factory wiring may have a common link

If you can find a factory wiring diagram maybe we can help

Just throwing it out there , hid`s don't work as fog lights in the fog .The light just gets thrown back in your face .halogens work better especialy in the yellow range .

I don't really use them to light up in the fog, if I could rename them to ditch lights I would. With their low and bright spread they give me enough extra light to help see the deer that look like their contemplating suicide. I notice a big difference in the amount of eye reflection I get with them on vs off ;)
I don't have any of my lights pointed stupid high and with the headlights being in proper projector lenses they don't "spread" and they do quite well with the fog so I typically just use those when it gets really foggy.

Im looking through google with no success on a light wiring diagram.... Will keep looking and scanning forums. I don't think theres a full out diagram in my manual either. Doesn't help that this vehicle has 3 totally different names depending what country your in.

Its one of those moments where I feel the need to throw in the "Im a girl and I know nothing about cars" white flag lol

I sort of want something a long the lines of this for my DTR's
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/prod...300148554.html

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/ASX-2...527383671.html
This set here near the bottom of the description says Id connect it with the wire of my headlight or signal (I think they mean markers/park lights) so when I flick headlights on the DRL's turn off.
I would obviously still have to figure out how to get the Headlights to not be on at all then when I have my switch in just DRL mode.

Ya that sounds like a plan using the markers and a new relay to power the new lights.
So try pulling the DRL fuse as you thought and see if the headlights still work properly in night mode.
I know back in the 90s Suzuki/GM had the 2 circuits connected together. If either the DRL or Headlamp fuse went out the Headlights were dim.

Even if the above works, you'd still have to add a toggle switch for the new LEDs.
I have an idea with 3 new relays involved, but you'd have to tamper with the existing wiring.

You'd need to put a relay between the DRL fuse and the headlights. This would be called relay #2
So, relay #1 gets it's signal from the Headlight power circuit, but does not interrupt it. Contact #87 goes to relay #2 DRL circuit and is the signal input. When in Headlight mode, both fuses power the Headlights.

Relay #3 gets it's signal from contact #87A on relay #1 and powers your new LEDs. Don't forget to add a fuse to the LED power line.

When in DRL mode there's no signal to relay #1 thus killing all power to the Headlamps - contact #87 on relay #1 is open. And with the third relay your LEDs would be on.
When in Headlight mode, contact #87A on relay #1 is opened killing the signal to your LEDs.

It's late and someone may see a flaw in my thinking, but it should work.
I'd have to draw it all out.

Going to try to go back to sleep now :wink:

I agree with Toytech,Halogen(low beam) is better than HID when it's foggy.light doesn't reflect back.also,if it isn't factory installed(HIDs)it's illegal...depends on the pig(officer) it has happened to me three times before....

But if you insist on using LEDs I can do it for you free of charge...all you need to do is drive to North Vancouver on my day off!

How would you wire them in ?

I had a thought about my idea while falling asleep earlier this morning.
If you go with relays and want everything running off the headlamp switch;
-if the LEDs are low draw you can run the power for their relay from an ignition source.
-if the LEDs are high draw, you'll want to use a fourth relay. This one will carry the load from the battery so you don't melt your ignition wiring and get it's signal from either the ignition or a marker lamp. Depends how you want them to act.

If you don't control them with the ignition, you'll need a toggle to turn them off and the 4th relay will solve this.

Haha Id totally take you up on that if I weren't on the island right now :P
Hell id be happy to trade frags to make somebody else do it for me. Gotta order the lights first!!!

I don't really want to add an extra switch, Id like them to be on when I turn my car on then go off when I turn the headlights/highbeams on. And I want my headlights off unless I turn them on.
I honestly know nothing about cars or wiring.
I know my relays for the Headlights just help pull power from the battery but they don't connect to anything special just the wires that were there so this new relay idea of connecting a DRL light to marker or headlights is confusing me.

Most of the ones I'm finding look like this. Take a close look at the plastic of the light itself....
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-...875543816.html

Then these these one, they look different, the LEDs under the plastic look different and the diffuser as well.
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/ASX-2...527383671.html

Anyone else see $20 difference between the 2? I cant read half the writing with the images so not sure if im missing something either hahaha

Can't help ya with the cost difference as all I see is white light :biggrin:

You say you want to just have the lights run off the headlamp switch. Well you're in luck. My idea will cost you a bunch of wire and 4 relays. Plus a fuse assembly or 3.

LMK if you want to do it and I'll draw out a diagram for ya. It's really quite easy for anyone who's ever done any kind of wiring. Ya just need to know how to crimp connectors. And its a good idea to put all the wire in split loom to protect it from chafing.

To recap - if your car is wired the way I'm thinking;
My plan will give you LEDs when your Headlights are off (DRL mode and with no dim Headlights), Headlights on without LEDs, and lights will be controlled by either the ignition (better idea) or the headlight switch (probably not up to snuff for proper DRLs, and you'd have to put on the marker lights to run the LEDs).

The only concern I have at this point is what will happen when you put on your High beams. It's possible the LEDs would come on too with my plan.

When are you in POCO again ? I could look at you car on the way home from work around 4PM.

Hahah the idea of 4 relays for 1 set of lights sounds... intimidating.
The sets will come with 1 relay or controller or whatever you call it.

I found this video and it seems to follow the same idea as the description on the 1 set on how to install.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSOdbc4M-gk
So if I pull the fuse for DRL I should still get headlights when I turn those on, but nothing will happen when I have the switch to just DRL mode or "Park Lights" (it has 3 options, DRL - which is just the DRL lights, Park lights - which is the yellow markers tail lights and DRLs, and HEadlights - Park lights and Headlight) so If I ran the controller (relay?) like they show in the video but connect it to my headlights that should allow the new LED's to be on in DRL and Park light mode, then go off when I switch to headlights. They should stay off when I turn Highbeams off because somehow (seems to happen to a lot of people who do this...) when I flip highbeams on, my headlights stay on.

I may just take you up on that offer and maybe we can atleast visually brain storm? It's honestly a giant mess of wires under that hood lol with all 3 sets of HID's I think theres a relay for the highs and Headlights installed (don't think we used one for the fogs....)
I will be in town.... end of the month! 22nd or something like that.
I know how to change bulbs and plug stuff in hahaha but I don't know wiring. I cant splice or cut or seal or... yeah id probably electrocute myself.

Well, you can't electrocute yourself with your 12v car, but you could maybe get a nasty burn.

I'll look at the video later - building a tank tonight.

The only thing I didn't see you mention is how to address the dimmed Halos with the DRLs on. Is there something mentioned about it with their controller ?
And by pulling the DRL fuse, are you taking half the power away from the Headlights ? As I mentioned earlier on, some cars are designed with 2 powered circuits. The first is half power, which you understand. The second is full power and is how your headlights go from DRL to Headlights.

This is why I was suggesting so many relays.

I'll get back to you after I look at the video.

Looking forward to getting my new mixing tank siliconed tonight !!

I asked 'cause I wanna know if I'm missing something.
Do you have an easier/better/simpler setup in mind ?

Sorry I haven't read though all the dialog between you guys - I know gregz is another car guy. I'm only going to shed a little in put on my experience installing HID bulbs for my headlights which would inturn be similar to you DTRL.

- bought cheap set, ballasts and bulbs online and installed.
- started driving and people were pulling over out of my way, apparently a ford five hundred would have made a good under cover cop car
- quickly realized THAT is what is going to get me pulled over by a cop and because it simulates an emergency vehicle, it has tickets and vehicle inspections written all over it - trust me I've had my experience with what gets their attention :)
- looked into it, and when in daytime, your headlights get a low voltage as they get a inconsistent voltage or something (its been years since I've done this so pardon if I'm wrong) and thus causes the ballasts to get a inconsistent signal to be on....or off.
- There are "anti flicker" relays that you install between you stock wiring harness and the HID ballast (provided you haven't done mods) which prevent the flicker
- I've installed these.....they work :)
- Just a general read of what I hear you want to do.... sounds like some modification of the stock wiring or addition, If you not really good at it... I always recommend leaving it to someone that is. Your lights not working when its pitch black going through the mountain one time because if it.... wont be cool at all.

To give you an example, I've re-wired a street / strip car with all new wiring - I'm very comfortable with the 12v system on anything pre-early 90's. Its just my mechanical and wiring intuition (not my experience) that the newer cars rely on their wiring circuits so much.... that I try to avoid doing to much to them :).

1.) However if you REALLY wanted to add LED driving lights (I've wanted to do this for my own fog lights using say..(6) Cree XM-L2 chips per side (just shy of around 1200 lumens each = 7200 lumens which is almost 3 times more lumens than a head light bulb).
2.) Tap a wire into the existing harness (positive) that goes to your current driving light / fog light) in a way that it would be easy to undo (I always solder)
3.) Take a bosch relay you can get from Lordco and run that "trigger wire" to terminal (86) on the relay - this is the trigger wire to turn the relay on / off
4.) then run a wire from terminal (87a or 87) to your lights to complete that circuit
5.) The headlights should then be independently grounded
6.) Supply independent 12v to the relay, in the most extreme case you would run a 10 ga wire (I believe thicker is better when it comes to headlights) and the most extreme case, battery terminal or alternator post, to the relay post (30/51)
7.) I encourage there to be a fuseable link, or fused section between this circut (20amp max)

Note - double check those number because I suspect I'm partially wrong.....its been about ten years since I've worked with that relay and it confuse me until I start playing with one (before installing) so DOUBLE CHECK and confirm those terminals before installing.

if this explanation was already given, I apologize... its morning...I'm not a morning person.... and it just reinforces what you could do then :)

Also note LED prefer a stable voltage source... not a varying voltage that cars would offer (range from say 12v to 14.4 volts depending on condition of charging system, RPM ) so I recall seeing another little relay type thing that promotes a limiting voltage of 12V or so. From what I would interpret this would just ensure your LEDS wouldn't get brighter as you say accelerated from a stop.... or dimmed as you came to a stop (that's what I would consider a poor installation) - it would also probably enhance the LED life and run them at a voltage they like and temperature.

As you might see... I like 12v systems and at least pretend to know what I'm talking about ;)

Yeah clearly this is a "pay somebody else to do it" job... ughh. I can pay somebody with coral ;) bahahaha. I do medical or animals stuff. I don't speak car.
I knew the HID's would do the flicker thing while on DRL mode before I bought them. I knew I would have to keep them on Headlight all the time, or find a way to turn DRL mode off...
I just want to avoid having HID's on at all during the day, because I honestly don't need them. However at night they are beyond useful with the amount of suicidal deer out here. And I don't want to go with nothing for lighting during the day, because honestly... the old folks around here cant see a store window in front of their car while parked, I cant imagine they'd have a very easy time seeing a black car with no lights coming at them.


So I went out and checked out the fuses annnnnnd absolutely nothing happens. The large blocks in the fuse block (im assuming the relays?) the one for DRL isn't even there so cant pull that to see what happens. Pulled the DRL fuse and nothing happened. Pulled the Headlight fuses one at a time and all they do is turn my headlights and DRL's off so nothing comes on at all.
So I am currently at a loss for how to prevent my current headlights/DRLs from doing anything when my vehicle is switch to DRL only.

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l8...402_122145.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l8...402_122155.jpg

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l8...402_122247.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l8...402_122240.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l8...402_122233.jpg

having done all that kinda stuff before... i can only encourage you to save your time (go work over time at work or something to make up for it) and instead of wasting more time and money trying to fix it, just pay a local to do the install how you want or mod. if neccessary.

there are plenty of guys advertising installed HID's for under 200 on craigslist, I cant advocate if they do good work or not, but sometimes....learning something new is better reserved for another day :)

Have you looked into the HID Anti-Flicker modules? They are plug and play harness and are supposed to eliminate the flicker caused by DRL's. I haven't used them myself but on other forums I belong to they seem to do the trick. Maybe see if the maker of your HID kit has their own brand of module.

My HID's are all ready installed and running fine...
I don't want more HIDs installed
I don't want my HIDs on at all in DRL mode.
I want to kill DRL from coming out my current light fixtures so I can install separate DRLS.

Have you repaired this yet.. I bought the LED head lamp and got rid of the HiD units. found the DTL work just as good with the OEM bulds. Led uses less voltage to run so the low voltage that the DRL module will not effect the performance of the LED head lamp.

Nope. Not yet.
Ive figured out how to wire in the led i purchased.
But i need to figure out how to disable my current drl. Just keep anythig from turning on while in drl mode.

Car lighting help - Adding aftermarket LED Day time running lights
 

Looking at the fuse box lid the DRL power supply is in the "J" location. If you remove that relay do your lights work? Hopefully lights work. But you might try to trace the supply wire from the actual module and run it to the park light.

There is a DRL fuse, but no DRL relay in the box. There is a spot for a DRL Relay... but no DRL Relay lol.
Pulling the fuse does nothing. And pulling all the various other headlight related ones does nothing.
I wondering if disconnecting one of the many wires that are plugged right into the headlamp housing would do it... but I don't have that kind of skill.

[ATTACH]14083[/ATTACHAttachment 14083
This is the all data wire diagram for a 2013 RVR AWD (Canada). If you pull out fuse 13 out of the fuse box you should disable the DRL. But I don't know what else it will disable. You might have to find the actual module and unplug that but i think it is all controlled by the ECU.

Ahh nothing showed first photos and I cant quite make out the second.
I keep hearing about this ECU and I head theres a pin in it I can bend to disable DRL's, but all those places I read about it said its supposed to be in the fuse box. And well it's not.
Fuse 13 is the one I've pulled for DRL and it did nothing.
I also pulled every single other fuse and relay related to headlights and nothing but turning ALL my lights off lol.

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l8...402_122155.jpg

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l8...402_122145.jpg

The ECU is electronic control unit. In other words the brain. According to the electrical schematic connector C410 pin ten is the wire you cut. If you cut it make sure you leave lots of wire on both sides to make repairs if that takes the power away from all lighting.

Where do I find my ECU though? I need like airplane landing lights to show me lol

Attachment 14090
Hopefully you can see the picture. You are looking for item G under the hood. Attachment 14091
I wish you the best of luck. And yes it is illegal to disable your day time running lights. You should see if you guy would wire in the led lights for the DRL's instead of disabling them. Just another path you could take.

Nobody has really been able to tell me how to do it that way.
I wish I knew how. Ive gotten nothing but bad attitude from guys on forums when I have tried to ask how to do this. So the easiest solution was wire them in with the controller and just disable my DRLs.

Spent all day trying to figure out how to wire the LEDs to turn on in DRL mode and NOT the headlights/HIDs
No Luck.
The LEDs are installed and look pretty sharp. Colour matches the HIDs pretty well so I don't mind if they stay on permanently.
But still CANNOT FIGURE OUT HOW TO KEEP POWER FROM GOING TO HEADLIGHTS IN DRL MODE! Frustrated...



http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l8...503_181930.jpg

I gave you an option in post # 7
Albeit it's kinda complicated and involves lots of relays/wiring etc

Electrical makes zero sense to me hahaha so most of that post whizzed past me.
Honestly if we cant figure it out by the next time I'm over in the lowermainland you might be hearing from me.
Mind you it all ready looks like a snake pit of wires under my hood between 3 pairs of HIDs and now the wires from these LEDs.