I like this forum even if the vendors don't want to be apart of it.
I find it funny that a vendor can post all of the positive feedback on the site but don't like if someone posts negative.

I see the point that another vendor can be negative about other vendors, as I have posted send me your pm's about vendors, and i have had vendors pm me about what they have ordered from competition and how i should not order from them, I think vendors shouldn't worry if the positve outways the negative.all in all i like the ratings and good job christy.

I don't envy the mods job at all, it appears to be a losing battle to keep anyone happy :neutral:

No kidding. A couple of negative ratings, and they're hiding under rocks :)

Keep in mind someone's satisfaction level may be based on service received before entering into any sale, and may not have bought anything after being disappointed in the service.

Therefore, a survey isn't going to cut it.

It's laughable, to me anyway, that a vendor can be upset about having one poor rating with dozens of positive ratings. That gets my vote for unsatisfied right there :(

Dave,

Since you don't want feedback posted on this site I have removed all posts where I previously commented on frags I purchased from you from this site.

Coral Master is willing to be critiqued on this rating forum, customer accountability or not. I always follow up with online sales to confirm that things at the very least have met customer expectations. That is the best time for customers to complain if there is an issue, not say everything is fine and then later act like it wasn't. That said, I am for the most part pleased with the rating system but I would just appreciate if/when a customer isn't satisfied they give me an opportunity to correct the problem. My goal is to have 100% very satisfied customers but it seems impossible to please 100% of the people 100% of the time so I can only worry about what is actually in my control and perform my due diligence. I would also like to add that whoever those few customers are that were not satisfied, please get in touch with me. At Coral Master it's never too late to nmake things right.:biggrin:
Mods keep up the good work, we appreciate all you do!
:lol::question:I am not sure I really understand what "neutral" votes are supposed to mean?? Are they saying they are indifferent and don't have an opinion? Sorry I guess since I almost always have an opinion and more than often voice it I just don't get that option.:question::lol:

LOL This is hysterical.

Have to agree, although I completely respect wickedfrags decision to pull out from our Canreef rating scale I believe that as a vendor you should have nothing to hide. If everyone on canadafrags.ca is raving that you provide excellent service then it should be the same here on canreef. I personally have made the decision to not purchase product from vendors on the site that choose not to have there services rated. When it comes down to the bottom line, if you practice good business etiquette and make sure your customers are happy then you have nothing to worry about. Yes vendors should be stopped from posting on other vendors and yes the votes should be monitored (This is canreef though and the mods do an amazing job of it!) but to say that no one can rate you because you believe you always provide 100% customer service is absolutely ridiculous!

WHAT EVER HAPPEN TO ACCOUNTABILITY?

I think the whole point of these polls coming about was due to vendors not having to be accountably for unsatisfied customers, but all we've done now is removed customer accountability. Customers can now come and bash vendors with out any qualification or quantification. Great! Now we know some people are satisfied and others are not but we've left out the most important part... WHY?

We also don't even know if the votes are from customers? "Yeah I'm very unsatisfied with _______ because I'd have to drive all the way across town to get there."

Typically I don't like to reinvent the wheel. See what works and steal it... EBAY.

Yeah people can leave feedback (vendor accountability) but it says who left it and gives them a chance to comment and say why (customer accountability), then replies from both seller and buyer can take place which is kinda like... wait... A THREAD!

If people wanna come on a praise a vendor they should be able to at which point the vendor can say thank you.

If people want to come on a bash a vendor they should be able to at which point the vendor can come on and explain/fix the issue or just hope to many people don't see.

^ Kinda like real life. I can walk into a store and say "man everything I got is doing great thanks sooo much I'll tell all my friends about you"... or I can walk in and say "what the hell... people are gonna hear about this crap"

Sometimes people are in the store to hear and thats just life.

There will always be retarded people who are just being stupid but I think typically those people are scene for what they are... retarded

But no matter what removing accountability is a bad idea... Thats why people have a problem with vendor immunity and why vendors have a problem with anonymous voting.

Just my $1.65

Thank you Greg! You sir are the type of vendor that I want on this forum, plain and simple no beating around the bush getting things done properly! I ask very politely and apprehensively for the rest of the vendors to follow Gregs lead, you are all great businesses and the populace of canreef does reward that with positive reviews!

I want make it clear that I like the idea, and agree with what most people have said, but there's a right way to do things and a wrong way.

Can we setup a system where people can post rather than voting or at least both? Just having polls is pretty meaningless, as stating voters need some kind of accountability. I've never seen a system like this and I really don't think it's going to work.

It's funny how some are saying vendors are hiding but it's the members that are hiding not the vendors. It's also amusing that you're not allowed to actually post anything negative about vendors but you're now allowed to vote anonymously? This seems to be a huge contradiction.

I would rather have people freely post their experiences, good or bad. This way we could at least correct them or be aware of the problem. How can you fix a problem if you don't know what it is??

You hit on the root of the problem. Since feedback, good or bad, is against the rules and feedback is usefull to everyone we are stuck. This might not be the ideal solution but at least it is trying to find a solution which is great to see.

Some of you have obviously not been around when feedback was allowed. Back then, any negative feedback often ended in childish name calling and bickering more reminiscent of a school yard then a reef board and it would go on for pages and pages like that

If feedback is against the rules, then we're breaking the rule with this system. Let's at least do it right. Stop beating around the bush, lets just allow all feedback. I have no problem with this.

And you're right it is good to see something being done and the mods are doing a good job. I'm just trying to help. I assure you almost all vendors will not like this system as is.

"It's funny how some are saying vendors are hiding but it's the members that are hiding not the vendors. It's also amusing that you're not allowed to actually post anything negative about vendors but you're now allowed to vote anonymously? This seems to be a huge contradiction."

Now am I hiding by choice or because I have to? I have voiced my opinion many times before (and had my hands slapped a few also) but its not up to the members if we can post reviews, in theory its up to the mods/ admins and sponsors. I do agree, there has to be some form of accountability in this method otherwise its swinging to the far left of the pendulum. We need to find a center point ( That's why were discussing it here though :biggrin:!)
Levi

^agreed

I think a quick solution would be to make the polls public. This way vendors could at least verify if the voters are customers (my major concern), if they are not we could contact the mods and have the vote removed. We could also contact members privately if someone was dissatisfied.
Also members could contact other members and inquire what they liked or disliked about the service provided. I think this is the minimal requirement of such a system.

I like the idea. I would also support making voting public. That way, you wouldn't get the public "he said-she said" name calling game, but there would be accountability and the chance for reparation.

Having said that, I also understand if it must be left as is and hope the mods don't see this as a criticism! Go mods!

To what end? I am not opposed to any comments in my sponsored forum and would hope staff would not modify comments without my permission.

Why must comments be anonoymous???????????? I fully support a system that allows discussion of issues on this board.

Any negative comments are not permitted so would be removed from your sponsor forum as they would from any other. Since only positive comments are permitted I decided not to comment on any vendor who does not want to participate in the polls.

If vendors opt out they shouldn't be surprised if customers do too. I have a difficult time with the rules for one vendor being different than all others. I can post feedback on everyone except you under the current setup and decided if you don't want my feedback it is inappropriate to comment at all on any purchases.

The moderators have done well with this first attempt at trying to find something workable. I anticipate we will end up somewhere other than where we are right now. Why not work with them instead of opting out?

I see your point on anonomous comments. I don't have problems with voting being public. I also don't have problems with the current setup where voting is confidential and the vendors have the ability to ask the moderators to investigate to ensure the votes are legit.

I have dealt with bussiness's that before i have even bought something I received the poorest customer service and choose not to shop there.So should i not be able to rate them because i never purchased anything there? i have received details(promises) on shipping,packaging etc before i actually enetered into the sale and had i known about the bussiness from some other way than i wouldn't have shopped there.Sure the product might be okay but in all reality the customer service sucks as they lied from the get go. Its not all about the purchasing power. Customer Service has alot to do with a voting system as we'll.


I would think that the vendors with good customer service and rating's have nothing to worry about when it comes to 2 upset people and 30 happy customers. Example(Snappy)
Yes indeed if you have alot of unhappy people than either something is up(pm a mod) or you need to reevaluate how you are running your bussiness.

You can't please everyone. Do you think places like Future Shop etc....Really care about the people they have ticked off along the way. They have enough "Happy" customers to still run a good bussiness.

I agree with your thoughts and understand your rationalle, it makes sense to me.

I would be happy to work with any staff on this issue, I think forum members deserve this type of information to be available. I choose to opt out until the system adds more value for members.

It's important to note not all us vendors are the same. I for one have very small customer bases and as a result, for the most part, get to know all my customers quite well. I always ensure my clients are completely satisfied so either someone took one of my posts too seriously or I have an angry customer. Either way I have no way of resolving the issue. If there's a problem I would like to fix it.

Also what about all those great local stores supporting this site? I've seen it many times, someone with little experience buys a piece of livestock without knowing much about it. It either dies or does something they don't like and they blame the store for not having mind readers. Now when they're still mad they can vote on these forums. The next day the same guy is back at the same store buying something else. And the whole time that LFS just wanted to support the site and let people know where they are.

I think since the venders are the ones paying for advertising on this site,there input should be heard

Wrong...they pay for the right to advertise, not the right to dictate how Sys Admin runs the forums.

same thing

Well, my recommendation to the rest of the staff is that this feature again be removed. Regardless of what we do, half like it, half don't.

You try so hard, and nobody ever gives you an inch....:(

I'm sure you could make it work brad.This was the first kick at the can

Too bad, I think it is real close and I have found it very useful.

Nope, seriously, half the people want it to show names, half don't. I've PM'ed many people with thoughts, and we're just not gonna win here.

My only other suggestion was to have a review lounge, and people can post whatever they want, and the sponsors can argue with them there, and the staff stays out. Although when we allowed anything near that, some of our other sponsors offered to advertise elsewhere....so......

Are you talking about vendors or staff. I don't remember being asked or even told about this feature, it just showed up. All I want and others may agree is a public voting system and the choice of participation. This is not much to ask so who's not given what?

That's too bad, Brad.

I quickly viewed the results and found the polls very similar to my own experiences and with the results of PM reference checks. PM's and discussions at parties can provide the same info. It was just nice to see it in one place instead of having to PM a bunch of people.

Thanks for the effort.

Yup, real close, but we can't get any closer and please anymore people thatn we have now. Some people will not vote negatively if they're gonna get called out, and therefore we get good reviews on a place that might not deserve it.

So here is a scenario. I go into your store, and I'm just not impressed. I don't like the way you greeted me, or didn't greet me. I look around, I don't like what I see, and I leave without buying anything. I come on here, I put a review that I was not satisified with the store, because things just weren't right. Next, I get a PM from you hounding me for reasons, and really, I just don't want to deal with you, that's why I left the store in the first place. But you won't leave it, or don't agree, so you pester the mods to remove what you feel is a wrongful review. Well, it was my honest review, and I'm allowed to offer it. I tell anyone I meet the same thing without you being able to monitor my conversation, so what gives you access to my vote? Nothing.

Now vendors like Snappy who are able to carry on regardless of getting a single poor review, and understands that maybe, just maybe, someone he dealt with, or almost dealt with, didn't like his Albertan accent, decided to post something dumb. But everyone else, because of his customer service skills, has posted great reviews. He's ok with great reviews, and can handle that maybe someone out of 6 billion people doesn't like him and he carries on doing what he does. Gives good service. I haven't bought from him, but I read the review and am confident that his service is good. It isn't skewed to be good because people were afraid to vote. I feel that I could order frags from Greg and he'll live up to what 99% of the reviews state. So there was one bad one, so freaking what?

I'm talking about people in general. I have spoken with people on and off the board that do not feel they would vote if they had a negative review, they don't want the hassle and don't want to get chased down by vendors. Why can't you just accept that someone wasn't happy?

Well, I think if you're not brave enough to stand up for what you say, you shouldn't say it. Of course you couldn't tolerate vendor abuse, I wouldn't harass anyone like you stated and I don't think anyone who would should be here. I think maybe you're over thinking that one, honestly who would do that?
I'm talking about solving a problem not creating one.


I'm not necessarily saying I can't accept it, but if that is the case I would like to correct it. One dissatisfied customer is too much in my line of work.

Well that's just silly. Lots of people are afraid to express their opinions for fear of conflict, etc. Me, If I think you suck, I'm gonna say it, but my Mom, she'd never say anything bad, just not deal with you ever again. Which is what we're trying to accomplish here, is getting an honest vote going by removing that conflict.
Personally, if this gets changed to post names, I will disregard any info the reviews claim and stick to PMs.

we can argue this all night, and we're not going to agree.

Fair enough, if things change I will gladly participate. I think it's extremely important you contact all vendors and give them the option of participation. The way this was sprung on the vendors was very unprofessional which I found quite surprising for this site.

Canreef is a very civil forum. We are all generally quite respectful. We can strongly agree, but it doesn't get catty. I think this mentality will transfer to the vender review forum. I don't expect to get Jerry Springer all of a sudden.

Thanks to the mods for all your hard work. To the vendors, I hope you find that the review results only reflect the high quality product and service you've provided again and again to the members of this board! I trust that they will.

Actually, we run the board for the users, not the sponsors. We do NOT need to consult you to run our board. Thanks though. I'm already unsatisifed with you and I haven't even dealt with you.

Vendors --> http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=44236

Well to a point this is also a business where the vendors are customers who paid for a certain type of advertisement, if you change the terms and conditions of the agreement before the year is up the least you can do is send them a copy. Where's my customer service :cry:

:mrgreen: