In the market for an HOB overlfow.. Flooding discussion
 

Hey guys,

I am shopping for an overflow box for my 20 gal, as I am currently building a 10 gal sump. Anywho, I have been seeing quite a few threads on people being freaked out about syphon break and how drilling the tank is the way to go (i agree on drilling btw however my tank is already up and running and I know there is no one around where I'm from that could drill it. I know I would break it..lol).

Here's my thought on the topic, and please someone chime in if there has already been a discussion on it. What I was going to do is simulate a syphon break, I would then monitor the amount the level drops in the chamber with the return pump, until the tank is about to flood over. I would then mark this level on the sump wall and mount the return pump so the suction is at or slightly above this level. This way, if the overflow box was to have a syphon break, the pump would try to continue to pump, however the level in the sump chamber with the return pump would drop to the point where the pump lost suction. This would prevent a flooding situation in my display tank and ensure that my hardwood flooring, as well as the gyprock on the roof in the lower level is not damaged.

I know that I would probably fry the pump if left too long, however, replacing a pump is so much cheaper than having warped hardwood flooring and replacing the roofing in the basement. lol.

Let me know what you think... Any other ideas would be great. thanks. Ooh and if anyone has a lifereef HOB overflow that they want to get rid of let me know..lol

Gary.

why not buy a safe overflow from gl*******.com and install that. it is nearly 100% safe and silent, and it looks great. I first built a pipe overflow but was too afraid of flooding and I am really happy I did this. Drilling the tank was easy and the little nano overflow take very little foot print. I have it installed on my 15 gallons with 20 gallons sump.

It's small box but work great. Here is a pic of it.


http://i786.photobucket.com/albums/y.../104_2040s.jpg

glass-holes.com kits are drilled.

daniella3d, I would, but my tank is stocked at the moment and don't want to risk it. If I were to be sizing up the tank I would for sure trust me..lol

overflow
 

I have had them for years...never owned a drilled tank
They are self primeing don't take up much room
My tank is in my living room...never overflowed
Just adjust the water level same as any tank with your sump
I think most of the stores sell them...
I know Steve at red Coral in Edmonton had a good one

I think your plan to raise the return pump would cause you noise issues....if the return pump is just below the water line in the sump it will draw in air.....if it were me, I would buy a brand new 20g tank and drill it, then swap everything over......the cost of doing this would probably be less than buying a lifereef overflow.......

This would be a good excuse to get a controller. You could have a float switch shut off the pump when the water dropped a certain level in the sump.

Alternatively you could get a JBJ ATO and use it to turn off the pump when it got too low. This is a cheaper option.


Getting another 20 gallon and moving everything is another option.

Have look at this product , 24 years in business no failures.http://www.lifereef.com/siphon.html

As others have said, get a new drilled 20g then you can rescape or run an overflow that is worthy, I was looking at the design of some of the overflows and some needed an aqualifter pump to prime and suck the air out, too much tinkering, I like the drilled overflow method, although saying this my next tank will have a coast to coast external overflow so I don't have an ugly box in the tank, also it will have 3 drains because you can't have too many safety in the hobby....

THanks for all the info guys. I was actually eyeing up the Lifereef overflow box as there are many people that seem to like them.

Fishytime, I agree witht he problem with the noise it could create, however if I did the math right, then the pump will be sufficiently below the surface to ensure there is no vortex created. If there is, I can make a custom vortex breaker and mount it on the pump so I think it won't be much of an issue.

I have a Lifereef on my 70 gallon and an eshopps on my 180. Both are routinely stopped and started with no problems. If your not drilling then one of these HOB's would be a good choice. Much better than the ones that rely on a aqualifter to restart IMO.

I have a lifereef on my 110g. Been running for3 yrs without a problem. A bit pricey, but worth it if you don't want to drill.

I used a life reef for 2 years on a past tank and had absolutely no problems with it Highly recommend it

The main thing with HOB overflows is to ensure the flow rate through the u-tube is high enough to prevent a siphon break.

It is still always smart to simulate siphon breaks to ensure the tank won't flood. My fail safe was making the pump chamber of my sump small so that the display tank would not overflow if the siphon breaks.

Keep the flow rate high, and have a fail safe. If you do that, HOB overflows are just as good as a drilled overflow, IMO.

That is a BS advertising claim.

Lifereef makes a good product, I own one, but they are by no means fool proof. They are essentially the same design as the Eshopps PF series overflows, but are made of thicker acrylic.

They are also really pricey, especially for Canadians ($50+ shipping).

Well thanks for the posts guys. Are there any LFS' that carry the LifeReef HOB overflow box?? I might be takin the Viper into Edmonton on Friday for servicing so I could pick it up then. Also, gonna pick up some Radions, and put my Mazarra's in the sump for the fuge.. Gonna have LED's all over the place..lol

I like the idea of making the pump chamber small as well. One other thing I was thinking of was installing a low level cutoff on the pump chamber. This way I have a 3rd backup, if the level in the pump chamber drops too low, the switch will kick it off. Hmm, I like that one..lol

you must order direct from Lifereef. shoot Jeff an email and see what he can do for you.

If you order the nano overflow box / slimline design, make sure you get the black color as they advertise. I got the clear plastic one and when I asked why, I got a response from Jeff (the owner) "no matter black or clear, it will eventually cover with algae anyway" :cry: I didn't want to argue about it at that time, but I know the box should come as he has advertised. Also, I paid an extra $19 for the silencer and $10 for an extra U tube as he insisted, but I actually never needed them. The silencer, have it or not, it doesn't make very much difference with the noise. I had to pay $30 for the shipping as well, which cost a little too much for just an overflow box.
Anyway, I am happy with the quality of this overflow box. But if I had known there was the Eshopp box around that has the same design like Lifereef, I would have saved more than half of the money by not buying this overpriced overflow box from him.

If you're going to go through all the work of installing float switches, why not put a hi level switch in the tank to kill the return pump and stop flooding
The switch shouldn't ever gum up - it should always be dry if all is running properly
Then you can put an ATO system in the sump

Excellent point!! Thanks for the advice, I may have to go that route.

Honestly, I'm probably the biggest advocate of HOB overflows on this site.

The pros and cons of drilling versus HOB has been beaten to death on this site.

If you do a search for "HOB overflow" I'm sure a few heated discussions will come up that have very good, biased information from both sides of the fence.

I will say though I am now on year 2 with my home made HOB u tube overflow without break in spihon (flood).

Running a pump dry is never a good idea, even as a method of preventing a flood. While many modern pumps have thermal protection to trip power when they run dry or overheat, you're still risking a fire. Your hardwood floors won't get warped, but the house could burn down. So good call on some sort of float switch to cut power as a safety measure.

I also had a bad experience purchasing my overflow from Jeff. I can't recommend dealing with him. In hindsight, I should have bought Eshopp's instead.

The silencer is garbage. I ended up just making a hofer gurgle buster myself, which worked 10x better and it didn't cost $20.

http://www.jlaquatics.com/phpstore/s...t_ID=esh-ofnan

This is exactly what you need.
SET UP PROPERLY, you should NEVER get a break in siphon.

You are fighting the good fight, sir ;)

The only reason HOB overflows have a bad rep is because people use them incorrectly.

What pump would you guys recommend that I put in the sump? It is going to be 3' under the display tank. Would a Mag 250 suffice? Or should I get something a little beefier and use that like a 500 or even 700? I was thinking about putting a T on the outlet of the pump to put back to the refugium section for added flow there.

Thanks for all the great replies guys! I think I will get the Eshopp's model and go from there.

If you are getting the Eshopps 200 GPH HOB overflow, I would get a Mag 350. It puts out 250 - 300 GPH at 3' head, so you will have to use a valve to choke it back. The Mag 250 is a bit weak, and you want to be sure that you can put enough flow through it to prevent air bubbles from building up and breaking the siphon.

Also, put a cover on the overflow box on the inside of the tank to prevent snails from climbing in and breaking the siphon.