MitchM tank build
 

I received back the CAD drawing for it today.:smile:
Hopefully it will be here in about 6 weeks.
Acrylic tank size is 96L X 48W X 30H. 600 gallons.

http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/w...6122624492.jpg

Circulation planned is to use 4 1" SeaSwirls in each corner (holes in brace predrilled) powered by a couple of ReefFlo pumps on closed loops (intakes are 4 holes along bottom of back wall) The idea with the SeaSwirls is to keep the top water zone moving well.
For a sump return I am planning on about 3500gph, return location yet to be determined.
I'll be supplementing tank flow with some Vortechs. I plan on putting in a 4" DSB and see how far I can push circulation over top of the sandbed.

I already have a few Luminarc III 400W lamps. I'll start out by putting 2 over the tank over the access holes. I also ordered lexan lids for the openings. I'll see if I can get a PAR meter and see how much of a difference the lids make.
I don't plan on supplementing the lighting.
Who knows, maybe there will be some plasma lights sometime in the future!

This is going to be a fun winter!

Mitch

Wowza, that's some tank! Looking forward to seeing where this goes.

Love the dimensions and love the acrylic!

My only concern (and it's too late now) is the acrylic thickness. Hopefully, it is 1" thick, but that will leave you unable to use the Vortechs which I believe won't work on 1" acrylic. I would bet that a 96" x 30" panel would deflect if it were 3/4" thick.

Get some of these large strainers for those intakes. Like these (on the right, NOT like the ones on the left)... These don't clog up or create dangerous suction like the smaller ones do.
http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r...n/100_0122.jpg

These strainers only come in female threaded, so put a female threaded bulkhead in and shorten a threaded nipple so that the strainer fits as snugly as possible against the bulkhead. Have a couple extra so you can just swap them out to clean them.

Nice...How many sides are you going to have viewable?...and what are the plans for your fishroom?

The new MP60 will work on 1" thickness

I was thinking of the MP60's already.

The tank is 3/4". I asked Tenecor if by switching to 1" I could reduce the size of the bracing, but they said no. It would only give a thicker appearance to the acrylic. For the price (and added weight) it didn't seem worth it.

Untamed, I did see those strainers on your tank build and want to get those. You got them from U.S. Plastics, didn't you?

This tank is going in my workshop, so the fish room options are pretty much open. No restrictions for height or space.
3 sides viewable, with a blue back.

Mitch

Nice tank, I am suprise you didn't go with 1" acrylic. With that height and width, 3/4" won't give you the piece of mind that 1" would. If you have decided to go this big, why stinch on the most important part.

Because Tenecor are the builders and that's what they recommended.:smile:

Mitch

Yes, I think it was US Plastics. They were difficult to find and I had to order them from the US...that much I recall.

I called Tenecor today, they were just starting on the tank...
A 3/4 tank will deflect 1/4" at the most, and a 1" would be negligible.
I told them to go ahead and upgrade to the 1".
Thanks for the input.

Mitch

I think that is a good call. My tank is 1" all round. When I'm working in the tank, I lay a plank across the opening and kneel on top of the tank to work. I imagine you'll be able to do that as well, and it is quite handy.

Just a note of interest regarding acrylic thickness - Today I came across another 600g tank on the net - Dakotareef.
His tank is 120L X 48W X 24H.

Made from 1/2" acrylic in 2006.

Mitch

Oh yeah...they are out there. You can also find reports of seams blowing out on some acrylic tanks, which should never happen. (not suggesting that one is going to blow) It just isn't the aspect of the tank that you should try to save money on.

It is interesting to me that the 120" x 24" is exactly the same sq.in area as your 96" x 30". Yet, I think you get MORE deflection in a 96x30 panel than you get in a 120x24 panel because the smallest dimension, 30", is larger.

Acrylic does sound pretty tough (other than scratching easily) from what I have been reading.
I think we tend to overbuild our tanks and stands, but when you think about it, if anybody would tend to overbuild the tanks, it would be the manufacturer. After all they are the ones that need to honour the warranties.

Anyway - as we all know....this thread is useless without pictures!
(where's the emoticon?)

This is my present sump area that is going to be rebuilt:
I'm thinking of building a single wall unit, painted white. The new tank will be backing onto the other side of what you can see here.
I've already received a new 300gpd RO/DI unit plus 2 jumbo BRS reactors. I started one of the reactors on GFO and this week I'll be starting the other one on GAC next weekend, replacing the current Deltec FR509.

http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/w...m/IMG_2980.jpg
http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/w...m/IMG_2982.jpg

Mitch

Totally "mad scientist" looking! Well done.

Talk to user "Acrylics" on RC. I'd trust whatever he suggests and I highly doubt he'd roll with the 1/2" in your case. He's the guy behind Envision Acrylics, is insanely knowledgeable in matters like this AND built Brad's tank if I recall correctly.

Thanks Brett, didn't know that. (the decision's been made, but there must be a formula that is used to calculate these things!)

"mad scientist"..lol:smile:

Mitch

Love the mad laboratory look. I'm tagging along, going to be an interesting build!

My wife says I'm not allowed to get sick or die.

Mitch

Tenecor called today. The tank is finished and is leaving their facility in Phoenix on the 18th.:smile:

Mitch

I've ordered the sand and salt:

Sand
800 lbs Sugar size
150 lbs Select size
40 lbs Special grade

Salt
Seachem Salinity (Aquavitro) 8 pails

It should all be ready for me to pick up around Oct. 20.

Mitch

Where did you order the sand from?

Red Coral.

Mitch

Cool, thanks. I think I might order some sand as well after all for mine which is why I ask (I had originally planned on BB but have changed my mind.) How did you figure out how much to order?

Hi Tony,

I'm following Ron Shimek's guidelines as best I can that I found here:

http://www.ronshimek.com/deep_sand_beds.html

Particle size distribution:

0.1-0.5 mm = 80%
0.1-0.75 mm = 15%
1.2-1.7 mm = 4%
1.7-2.5 mm = 1%

Here's a link to his discussion about it:

http://forum.marinedepot.com/Topic70...hlight=dsb+0.1

I am trying for a 4" or better depth.

Mitch

Well the tank finally arrived today.
There was a 2 week delay getting out of Tenecor. I was able to track it up through the border, no hassles there.
Environment Canada issued a heavy snow/ winter storm warning for our area so I tracked down the aquarium to a yard in Calgary and asked if I can come and pick it up before we have snow on the ground. We live on a steep hill.
First they said yes, then they said it would be too much trouble to empty out a 53' trailer to get to it. I told them it would be less hassle than pulling their truck out of the ditch....no go...:confused:
They ship it to Red Deer....it snows of course...now they won't deliver it until the roads are "clear"...
Next they ship it to Sundre...well, we only go to Water Valley on Fridays...o.k. it's Friday...we're on our way...Hello?..this is the shipping company...our truck broke down, we'll call you in a few days.
So it shows up today. I'm glad the temperature is 0 and not the -27 it was there for a bit.:smile:
http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/w...m/IMG_3649.jpg
http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/w...m/IMG_3650.jpg

It's just me here to do this, so I get my tractor and unload it:
http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/w...m/IMG_3651.jpg
http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/w...m/IMG_3652.jpg

In order not to put too much pressure on the sides of the tank, I cut a couple of 2 X 4's a bit wider than the tank and hold the straps off the edges of the aquarium:
http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/w...m/IMG_3654.jpg

...and away I go:
http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/w...m/IMG_3656.jpg
http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/w...m/IMG_3658.jpg

I wasn't totally alone..I did have an audience:

http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/w...m/IMG_3659.jpg

I placed it up on my table saw and unwrapped it:

http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/w...m/IMG_3662.jpg

The best part...not a single scratch!:smile:

Here's the feeding tube and you can see the edges rabbeted for the lexan lids I ordered:

http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/w...m/IMG_3663.jpg

The back 40" overflow:
http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/w...m/IMG_3665.jpg
http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/w...m/IMG_3666.jpg

Here are the intake strainers, with my iPhone on top for size comparison:
http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/w...m/IMG_3668.jpg

While I was waiting for the aquarium I was looking at a full size piece of plywood, trying to imagine aquascaping this thing. This is going to be a daunting task.:twised:

Mitch



.

Looks great!!!

Tank this size there should be lots of fun options for 'scaping methinks. That said, I hate aquascaping. :lol: Mostly because I'm hugely fussy, but tend to really like what others can do and really hate what I can do. I'm sure everyone feels this way about their tank to an extent but it's *really bad* in my case.

Were this my tank, I'd probably go with bommies and ravines, and bommies the size that I had originally thought of for my 280 before I put them in the tank and realized how much too big they were for my tank, which was too bad because I really liked the shapes .... but anyhow it's your tank so don't listen to me and go with whatever vision you had in mind. :lol:

Now there's a monster tank.
Kevin

Thanks Tony.

I don't actually have a vision, other than some basics.
I want a healthy diverse sandbed, and the live rock to be suspended above the sandbed with enough circulation space in order to prevent detritus buildup within the rock structure.
I have some fairly old live rock (well, old as far as closed system aquariums go) I've had some of this live rock for 10+ years.
Cooking live rock is basically keeping it in it's own system and allowing the rock to shed accumulated detritus. I would like to do that in a system that can handle the shed detritus on an ongoing basis.

In nature, coral larvae spread everywhere and successfully grow where there is sufficient food. We do it backwards in that regard - we place coral first and then try to bring food to them.
I would like to set up my system in such a way so that there are areas of food concentration that I can identify and then place coral in those spots and see if they are successful. I don't know, maybe I'm dreaming here ..:lol:

I'm going to be trying to raise and enrich some artemia first and see what happens to them in the main tank. I'll decide on my direction of the display from there.

I'll be drilling, pegging and epoxying the rock structure to begin with, hopefully I'll be able to create a couple of pockets where food will swirl and accumulate.

One thing that I haven't dealt with yet is the return water from the overflow. The overflow is built to handle 3500 gph. I will need to drill some return holes in the top bracing of the tank. I'm not sure if I should go with a lot of small return piping, or maybe just 2 large return pipes.
If anyone has some suggestions, I'm all ears.:smile:

Mitch

Looks great! Nice strainers. I know those work perfectly and create zero dangerous suction at their surface. Use a threaded bh so you can unscrew and replace them easily for cleaning.

If you aim a couple of the cl outputs upward slightly toward the surface, you won't have any need for Sea swirls. (I've heard that they don't run reliably for long periods...but I've not personally used them) My water surface boils from two outputs on the bottom of the tank.

You mention "a couple of Reeflo pumps"...but only have 4 holes in the back wall? Two holes for the strainers, leaves only two holes for tank inputs?

Consider using two of the top/corner holes as sump returns (over the top will prevent back draining in power failure). Use the other two top/corner holes as part of your CL's. Even though you are a bit short on holes, you could still put an OM-4way on one or both CL's. You'll just have to connect two outputs into one, but you'll still get benefit of the current mixing they can provide.

I like your idea of placing coral where the food appears to be. It is going to test your patience to wait that long to add corals!

Thanks!
Actually all 4 holes along the back are the intakes and the four holes in the top bracing are for 1" Seaswirls. I'll have 2 Reeflo Superdart gold pumps each having 2 intakes and supplying two seaswirls. I've had seaswirls before and I liked them.
I also like the seaswirls in that they will keep mainly the top level water moving. I'll get maybe a Vortech or two for the mid water movement.
I would like just a slow but constant movement across the sand bed.

Mitch

...continued from the
Bidirectional flow thread


(****Post from Kevin at Red Coral)


There are 4 holes drilled in the top brace to accommodate 4 seaswirls,

****1.5" bulkheads

which were to be fed by the 4 holes drilled in the lower bottom back of the tank.

**** I can't tell the size of these holes I would hope they are for 2" Bulkheads

My original sump return was to be determined and because the tank is acrylic I have the ability to reasonable modify it.

**** You can modify as acrylic is easy to drill but with such an incredible tank (do you want to?)

What I would like to do is use only the front two top holes for the seaswirls and drop a couple supply pipes originating from the sump down the back two top holes.

**** seaswirls are an option.

The two supply pipes would alternate the flow, clockwise or counter clockwise in 5 hours one direction with a 1 hour rest followed by 5 hours in the opposite direction, 1 hour rest. Repeat.

**** I personally do not recommend creating the directional flow from your supply lines from your sump..This is where your heaters, filtering etc. are located and do you want to shut that down for an hour every 5 hours. Your directional flow pattern is also where it could become problematic. Do you really want or need to create this flow supply from the sump?


The top zone would be kept moving through the closed loop full time.
I have 1 reeflo dart supergold for the closed loop and 1 reeflo dart supergold for the sump return.

Depending on the results of the final setup, I was leaving open the option of adding the MP60's. The price of them is giving me a lot of incentive to minimize how many (if any) I put in there.

**** If the 4 closed loop holes in the lower back are 2" bulkheads you could then add another dart gold and use 2 of these each to supply a pump and each return would be to one side of the tank. You could pipe in whatever flow and to what areas you wanted. Then with timers you could create your directional flow at the 5/ 1/ 5 timing.

****Kevin

Hi Kevin,

The holes in the top are 2 1/4", the holes in the back are 2 1/2".

That's a good point about the heaters. I wonder how much heat the tank would lose? I heard that acrylic had some insulating properties, plus I'll also be using lids on the tank.
I'm not too concerned about the temporary loss of filtering at this point. I don't want a heavily stocked tank. The tank feedings could occur near the end of the rest cycle.

If I went with your last setup suggestion, I would still need to drill a couple of holes for the sump return, wouldn't I?

Hey Mitch you should get the ECO Reef Rock and do the dry structures that is what Im doing with my 96footer too. i love the rock easy to work with and alot better and then you can take your time with it...:wink:

Hi Mike,

That's what I was going to be doing with the base layer - then I was going to drill and peg my existing LR onto that.:smile:
If I need more after that, I'll most likely get more Eco Reef Rock.

.

Sorry, if I'm making an already confusing discussion, even more so, but I have a few questions about your design. There are four holes in the top for the (now two) Seaswirls, but the plumbing is coming up from within the tank?

The Supergold Darts only have 12' head before shut-off so I assume you have 1.5" plumbing all the way up, and you aren't going more than 6' up. That 4300 GPH quickly turns into 2200GPH with 6' of head, a ball valve, check valve, and a few elbows. If the two Seaswirls are on a closed loop they will also have more headloss than your proposed tidal system. How many effluent lines will you have on your closed loop? I assume you are dropping down to 1" at the Seaswirls. You may only have 1500GPH on your closed loop by the time you finish up.

You may want to consider a pressure rated sump return pump like a Blueline or Iwaki 100 for the two Seaswirls and use four 1.5" effluent lines (reduced to 1" at the tank) for each of the two Superdart closed loops.

One of the benefits of an OM unit over solenoids (other than cost and noise), is that the OM will allow some passive flow through the closed line(s). This is beneficial considering that these lines will be off for 5 hours and will become anaerobic. Also keep in mind that you may have some air in the lines as they fire back up again. The bubbles aren't a big problem for corals or fish, but they do make a mess of your lighting (salt spray). The Om unit will not allow air into the line when it is cycled "off". The OM has a soft on/off cycle so you don't dislodge biofilms from your plumbing every time it changes path/direction, as you would with an abrupt cycle.

I'm leery of turning pumps on and off on frequent cycles, especially pumps that are not magnetically coupled such as the Sequence line. I find with these pumps, particularly as sump returns, perform and sound differently as the impeller settles in varying positions. If you set it and forget it, these pumps are reliable. Pumps with a soft on/off are another story.

Are you using the check valve as an air intake or to physically stop water flow (back siphon)? Is it a swing, ball or wye style check valve?

I'm not sure if you will achieve your tidal sequence if you are just using one pump to go through the cycle.

The lids will raise the tank temp at least 5˚F. They will limit gas exchange slightly, but it isn't a major concern. You will get condensation and salt creep/spray and the lids will become cloudy further diffusing light. If you are using metal halide lighting, the lids will warp considerably. Flipping them weekly helps keep them straight.

Lol not recommending a pair of Abyzz with a controller just yet Mr. W? It's certainly not a cheap option.

That's how I'd do it. You could run them 100,10... 10,100 so the lines don't go stagnant.

Hi Mr. Wilson,

Thanks for your input, I've been following your work on RC.:smile:
The original design was to have closed loops with two Dart pumps. Each pump would have 2 of the rear intakes and supply 2 of the seaswirls. The pumps were to be mounted on the back of the stand itself just below the level of the tank. This mounting would be similar to the mounting of the closed loop pumps on the Penn State main display tank. As it is a closed loop system, head loss would be minimized and friction would be minimized by keeping the actual plumbing run as short as possible.
When I ordered the tank I had not determined the sump return and had intended on drilling the tank as needed for that.

At this point I am going to be using only the front two seaswirls and dropping two supply pipes from the sump down the two rear holes that were originally going to hold the two rear seaswirls. That means that I will have the 4 rear intakes for 1 Dart pump supplying the two front seaswirls.

There are no check valves in my design. I have not had good experiences with them in the past.

As the system sits now, 1 dart pump will be supplying close to the limit of 2 seaswirls rated GPH.


The cycle planned is actually 5 hours on, 1 hour off. The outlets for the sump return will be designed to allow for drainback of the water to the sump, so there will be no water remaining in the plumbing lines. There will be air coming back through the lines, but given the closed top of the aquarium, the lights will not be affected. I'm not sure what the effect will be from any biofilm being dislodged on a regular basis from the plumbing.


The effect of the on/off cycles are a concern of mine with the Dart pump and I am open to changing to a different pump for that application.

Again, I will not be using a check valve. The back siphon will be allowed to happen.


My original post to Oceans Motions was to see if they could come up with a design that could accomplish just that. Paul at OM thinks he has a non-solenoid controlled design, and I am waiting to hear back on the final results:smile:

The lids are Lexan, so I am not expecting much, if any warpage.