DC pumps:huge power savings, really?
 

Wondering real world experience with DC pumps in a basement sump application.

The power saving thread had some high head/high flow numbers with what seems really low wattage. Since I'm around 1200gph @ 260W with a Barracuda in the basement would considering switching if true or is it just numbers on the sides of boxes and manufacturer's hype.

Just looking on the site for these DC pumps the flow chart for their largest model looks kinda funny.
RLSS dc10000

I run a 10000 to my skimmer (used to be 2 Eheim 1260s) at level 4, a 10000 as my return (used to be a Mag12) at level 4, a 5000 to my reactors, and a Barracuda as my closed loop.

I know they are quieter and use less power (as per my Apex) but I know one of the 10000s wouldn't keep up with the Barracuda, I'm not sure 2 would even keep up but I may test this soon :). They are nice pumps but may have a bit of a exaggerated GPH rating.

As well they advertise 85 watts AFTER the adapter. Don't forget there will be a power loss from the adapter. I am thinking it probably draws 100 watts from the mains.

I'd be happy at 100W, just wondering the ~6000l/h at 5m head.

That seems rather inflated 1351 Imperial gallons at 15 feet from a 100 watt pump.:wink:

I'm certainly no electical enginer, but when choosing my pumps I spoke with an electrical enginer. His recommendation - without hesitation was to go with DC equipment if possible.

Questionable water flow ratings from manufactures aside, a DC pump will use less power to move an equal mount of water compared to an AC pump. DC is more efficient. One advantage of DC is that the speed of the pump can be controlled thereby reducing the power consumed. An AC pump is either on or off - full power use or nothing. A DC pump, if it comes with a speed controller, can be set for a lower speed (lower wattage use) if you do not need the full water flow. I have my Waveline 5000 set at the third of six speeds which provides me with plenty of water flow and uses half the full wattage (approx 20 watts).

Can someone post a picture of how these pumps hook into the sump. Thanks

Mark, there's obviously a mistake on the website, at 5m head you get zero flow. We discussed this in a previous thread but here's an adjusted pump curve that I believe is more realistic.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a1...s/DC100001.jpg

Not really, you can get VFD's (variable frequency drives) to control AC pumps. A lot of commercial/industrial buildings use this method for their pumps and fans to cut down on energy costs. Small VFD's have come down in price a lot but whether the cost of adding one would save you any money in the long run or not I couldn't say, and not at all if you are just going to run the pump at 100% all day long. Not all motors are VFD compatible either so that is something else to confirm. If I were starting from scratch and needed a return pump I would go with a DC model if it was as capable as a similarily priced AC pump in an instant.

here is my dc5000:

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d9...psad6d2b68.jpg

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d9...psed91ae1c.jpg

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d9...psbb50664b.jpg

Not to forget by restricting outlet of AC pump like the Barracuda, flow and power draw will decrease.

Sphelps, 4m and 4000l/h @ 85w still sounds to good to be true as that 3-4X the efficiency of the Reeflo

Ahaa - I get to learn something new everyday! LOL :lol:

I'm not sure about this - unless the Barracuda operates differently from other pumps, the ability to restrict the outlet does reduce flow, but that isn't linked to power draw - reducing the output/flow typically increases the back pressure on a pump but I'm not sure that it reduces power useage.

That effect has been measured for sure with the reeflo pumps.

Power draw will reduce slightly as head pressure increases, this is typical for most centrifugal style pumps.
http://www.reeflopumps.com/images/34...-Low-Speed.jpg
You can see in the spec sheet how the power drops.

I run two of the waveline 10000s and I some what agree that perhaps the flow-rate is exaggerated but I also use to think the power consumption was higher due to how hot the power supplies would get but after measuring the actual power consumption to be right on the money (85W full power) I seem to think the flow rate is likely accurate as well. I'm not sure why the manufacturer would lie about it. However what the pump curve really looks is probably key here, I just drew a typical curve line to give an idea what it probably looks like, doesn't mean it's accurate. Worst case you could draw a linear line, I've never seen a centrifugal pump do worse than linear.

If someone hasn't tested these pumps before my next sump break down I might do a little test to see what these pumps actually put out but until them I'm pretty satisfied with manufacture specs being accurate.

Dc pumps use less power for the same work. I know this is true because of what we were taught in ac/dc motors and i have seen the difference in my new furnace. We replaced and ac fan furnace with a dc powered fan furnace. I run my fan 24/7 365 days a year to try keep the basmemt and up stairs reasonably close in temps and what we have seen is a 20 buck a month drop in the power bill with no other changes.

So if you have the option of going dc do it. Aside from the lower power consumption the fine speed controle is better.
Steve

contacted distributor (rlss) re: using DC10000 for basement return and told pump not designed for high head and would have very limited flow but Waveline is coming out DC pump with redesigned impeller.

Nice that they're are upfront about their product, know I'll be watching out for their new pump.

here is a bit more info. I am pretty excited for the 6000/12000 to come.

https://reefbuilders.com/2013/02/04/...major-upgrade/

This thread might be worth a read regarding the Wavelines, not sure if the issues have been addressed.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2221830

I am using a dc5000 and dc10000 both internally and love them. The changes they made for the new pumps should fix all the things that needed to be tweaked.
-better housing and threads (it's not 11/4 npt its something close but not quite)
-improved impeller for better pressure while maintaining the low power consumption
-and able to be controlled externally.

With that being said I love the pumps and am very happy with them over all


****Subman's post not jr's*******

That's good news, I was considering a 10000 for a return pump.

I'm using one and it moves a lot of water! :)

The pump it replaced had just under 2000gph but drew 30 watts more.

I'll be repurposing one of my darts so one of these could take it's place. I'd like to replace all the darts at some point but I'll be waiting until they come out with some higher flow models that are externaly controlable .

Sent from my GT-I9100M using Tapatalk 2

Rumor has it that the 0-10V/RJ45 controllable versions (DC6000 and DC12000) will be shipping in March. As for flow rates on the existing models, the link that Parker put up to the RC thread a few posts back references Diablo pumps and the strong similarities they share with the Wavelines. Here is a graph of the flow on the Diablos which is likely similar to the Wavelines.

http://www.aquacave.com/Assets/NewPr.../DiabloWP7.jpg

It would be really interesting to see the cost and performance numbers for a vfd and 3 phase pump setup. Even if you run it at 100% 3 phase motors are more efficient, and run smoother and quieter than single phase motors. A vfd would still be needed at 100% to change single phase power to 3 phase. I've looked around online for something like this, but haven't found anything.

I really only purchased the wavelines for the ability to control them externally with 0-10V when a new controller would be released. Kind of annoying it seems I'll have to buy two new pumps if I want that feature. Looks like a completely new design as well so current versions will probably be discontinued along with any hopes of obtaining replacement parts, also annoying seeing how they just came out, literally.

Some of these companies need to do proper R&D and testing prior to releasing products to the public. We're not your beta testers.

The link that Parker posted up made reference to the expectation of an easy hack to make the 10000's 0-10v controllable. I agree it is not good of them and think it is BS... but making the best of the existing situation perhaps with a mod you wouldn't have to replace them. I understand the controller can be unplugged from the pump? If this is the case the new controller with the RJ45 should be an easy swap onto your existing pump, assuming they make the plugs the same. Just and idea.
Dan

I missed that link I'll have to look for it. While you can unplug the controller from the pump the statement made by reefbuilders about the IC chip being removed from the pump to the new controller seems to suggest it won't be compatible.