Controller question
 

I have been toying with the idea of getting a controller for awhile now. One thing I am curious about is if you can run multiple tanks off of one. Not from a switch/power perspective I know you can daisy chain the power outlets on a lot of them. From a software display perspective can you set up systems in the software so you can look at lets say temp and various other individual tank parameters together and not look at long lists of parameters such as TEMP1, TEMP2, TEMP3, PH1,PH2,PH3 etc etc

thanks!

I believe you can run more than one tank (system) on a ProfiLux.

I currently run 5 Tanks as a single system ( 1 Sump ) on my ProfiLux.

Tom R

#1 choice will be profilux, initial purchase price and accessories are equally expensive.
# 2 will be Apex. Not as robust as the profilux but it will achive most of what the profilux can do.
#3 wait a bit until the vertex controller comes out. supposedly it is the cats ass.

Thanks Tom. This is all new to me. So the Profilux can isolate systems within it's programming/display features then? That's what I am hoping for.


Anyone know if the Neptune Apex can? That was the one I was hoping to pick up.

What do you mean by robust? Reliability, expansion options, build quality?

Yes. On the Apex you can create pages and each page can display different probe / outlet information. Works on the web UI and the attached Apex display unit but does not (as far as I know) on the iPhone app.

It may be affordable to buy a Neptune Apex Jr for each tank. At $150 USD, the Jr comes with a temp probe and 4 outlets. Going with a single Apex or Apex Lite means you'll need to buy a temp probe ($60) and probe modules ($80) for each tank. It will depend on what you want to monitor and control.

Great that's that I was hoping for. I will likely go with the pricier unit and pay for the extra probes etc so I do not limit the features I can use.

I wrote Vertex today looking for insight as to when the Cerebra is going to be available. After seeing it in person, I know it puts the other controller systems to shame but I need to buy something very soon and I doubt I can wait any longer.
Vertex stuff tends to be expensive but if you can afford to wait, I doubt you would regret it.

The Vertex Cerebra sounds like its definitely worth the wait as it will be the cadillac of all controllers. I thought I read where it was going to be out in January as the parts they were waiting for arrived. It might be worth it to wait as my guess is we will see a price drop from the competition after the Cerebra is released.

Just read where Vertex is saying January!

This quote is directly from Vertex last week. "Expect dealers to have it mid February"

Based on my experience with both systems, Apex is an easier system to operate out of the two but with that said it is a lot more glitchier. I had a lot of problem try to program it, it would kick me out of the software while I was in the mist of programming it, I would always have to re-log back in to try again. When accessing through the internet using aquanote, it would disconnect from time to time for no appearant reason. Out of the year and a half that I had the system(apex) I had to send in the display module due to the backlight led failure($35) and the base module meltdown($150) plus down time. One thing Apex has going for it is customer service. If you ever have any issues with your apex, Curt from neptune is always there to help. Emails are always answered in a timely fashion. I honestly can't say that about profilux...
As far as realiability goes, I have only had my profilux for a short while so I can't really comment on that, but I know lots of people that are running the profilux system that has been trouble free for years of service.
Build quality on the base module for the Apex just can't compete with profilux. Mind you the cost on the apex is a lot better than the profilux. I do like the Apex unit as it is cost effective and it will do pretty much anything you ask of it. Expansion are endless, you can control anything from you tank outlets to when you want to turn on your coffee pot in the morning if you wish. I spent 800 for the apex which came with 2 dc8 power bars, 1 dc4hd power bar, 15 feet of extension cable, standard 1 ph port, 1 ph/orp port. The same setup in profilux, one will be looking at around 1800 to 2300 depends on how many power outlet you need. 350 bucks for each powerbar pab sure gets up there quick.
At the end I guess its really up to you and your wallet. I like the apex system while it does have glitches here and there it is still a decent system for the price. If you rely heavy on your controller like I am, then profilux might be a better way to go, or wait for the vertex unit.

Yeah, it may be cheaper depending on what you want to measure/control. FYI... all the Apex controllers (Apex, Apex, Apex Jr) have the same capabilities. You won't be limiting yourself by choosing one model over another. The only difference is what features are included on the unit - any feature missing can be added with an expansion module.

A controller is only as good as the support and continuous upgrades it comes with. To me vertex has it's hands in too many things and as a result may tend to be bias to it's own product lines in terms of compatibility and I doubt continuous new upgrades and expansion modules will be high priority. I do like the idea of the android operating system but at the same time wonder if open source will be a useful feature with such a small market and would be concerned about credibility/reliability of such apps in something controlling the lifeline of such a sensitive investment. The apps along with most of it's features also seem gimmicky, kind of like my iphone which is pretty cool but I wouldn't trust it to run my tank IYKWIM.

Of course this is just my assumption but I'd simply be careful about jumping on that vertex right away, I'd let it play out for at least a few months.

For the record I like my profilux, mainly for the reason it grows with the hobby. I don't think there's anything it can't do that other controllers (currently actually available) can and it does so without crashing.

Thanks for the detailed review!

My experience has been good - though I haven't tried any other controller. Once programmed the Apex has never failed. Web interface is functional but could use some usability and aesthetic improvements. It also sometime stalls requiring a refresh and the graphs sometimes don't work in Chrome. The programming allows a surprising array of behaviour. Build quality is good but not amazing - some of the parts feel cheap. I'd like to see more seals against water spray.

I don't own a controller yet, but want to get one eventually. Not sure just what all they can do, but here is a situation that would be desirable for me.

Can you program these controllers, so that your skimmer comes on after a delay (eg 5 minutes, instead of immediately) after a power outage?

I live in the south Langley area, and we seem to have more power outages here than anyone else. Even this last little snowfall here, had a 2 hour power outage.

When the power goes out, my sump fills higher, as the display tank drains down a bit. That elevates the water level where my skimmer is, and when it first starts up, it will overflow the cup, because of the high water level. Once the return pump runs for a few minutes, everything is back to the correct levels (after my auto top off does it job, too).

Most of the times, I have been home to unplug my skimmer for a few minutes before the power comes on. But if I am not it will overflow.

Is this something that a controller can be programmed to handle?

You will be able to do it with profilux, I never tried with my apex cause I never had a need for it.

You can put blackout delays on every device with profilux and set the time interval to whatever you want. This a standard feature and doesn't require any advanced programming, when you add a device simply type in a number in the blackout delay field. It's a good feature as well so everything doesn't turn back on at the same time which can cause breakers to trip.

Does the Apex have this capability, too?

Yes, but will require a programming statement to do it (there isn't a blackout option you can click).

By the way, the original apex guide that comes with the controller is not very straight forward but you can download another instruction guide below which helped me tremendously. http://reeftech.webs.com/Apex%20New%20User%20Guide.pdf

All apex user must check this unofficial guide out.

And if I could get a controller that would ensure all my pumps always restarted (one of my Mag pumps doesn't sometimes) after a power outage, then I would be really impressed...

I don't believe the Apex can do that natively, but you could probably find a way to monitor the amp draw or at least monitor the amp draw via one of the phone aps.

A couple ways, if it's s sump pump a float switch could be used with some simple logic to insure it turns back on after power outage, if it does not it can set alarm and send email. I believe you can also get current sensing power bars for a price that should be able to determine whether a pump is running properly or not. There's also many options for digital inputs but I don't know that much about it but realistically you could do it you wanted but it might be cheaper to buy better pumps ;).

You can also get notifications after power outages by email/text message and then check you system through web access, provided you have it all setup. Remote access would also allow you to turn off and on pumps to attempt remote restart.

Yeah, but that assumes my home computer had an auto restart, too. And yes, I know, that probably can be done, too.....

Hard to believe fish keeping can be this complicated... What did they do in the old days?...

Profilux 3 has integrated web-server so a computer should not be needed, and the SMS text message module can notify you as you see fit without an internet connection if you desire.

Once you have a controller, things will be not as complicated as it sounds. Very straight forward and will save your tank many times like mine. Power outage, overflow is plugged, heating failure, etc....


I have my apex for almost 2 years now and I have no problem whatsoever.

For those who are quoting pricing for ProfiLux etc you may want to revisit some website to verify pricing. So far most all of the prices I've seen quoted are "Fat" to say the leas especially on the "Package" prices etc.

One other thing to consider... most of the packages for ProfiLux other than the basic beginner package come with a helping of probes, sensors, and powerbars. If you start looking in the $1600 range (as previously noted) you're doing a lot more than "just getting started" with your controller. For that kind of money you're probably talking 18 outlets, ATO control, Salinity, Orp, pH, Temp and a whole lot more.

Another useful link for Apex users: this site will notify you if you have an extended power outage (since your controller, router and cable modem will probably be out as well):

http://www.reeftronics.net/

Very cool information. That site is also for other "controller" users as well.