Canreef policy issues?
 

So without getting into major specifics I have an issue with Canreef and the freedom they allow their sponsors. I recently posted a response to a fellow member who had asked a question about purchasing a product. I actually used a Canreef sponsor in my answer to this member. I was shocked and ****ed off when revisited the posting and saw that my answer had been changed and was referring to another sponsor entirely. When I questioned this I was informed by the Canreef sponsor that the other sponsor was not an official supplier of this product and they had edited them out of my answer. They apologized but my query is how can one member{sponsor} have the authority to make changes to an answer posted on the forum? I can understand if they close the thread, delete the thread but to change my answer is in my opinion very wrong! Changing a fellow members answer should not be allowed..delete it and contact the member as to why it is deleted is fine with me, but to change my answer and edit it with another answer is plain and simple ...wrong. If Canreef staff are going to adhere to this policy then when somebody asks for a product and gets a response for a non vendor like King Ed Pets etc I guess that won't be allowed. So if someone asks where is the best place to buy a Red Sea Max I guess I better not see anybody respond with an answer that doesn't point directly to a Canreef sponsor or I hope that is going to be omitted{not changed} as well. If I get my posting privileges suspended for this rant ..so be it...:mad::mad:

I have to agree with you on this one. Vendors should not have the power to edit others posts......... delete yes but not edit it :sad:

I agree as well but I don't think that sponsors should have the right to delete a post either. Its a public forum with some good rules & regs but there should be an explanation or request post from the sponsor to the OP. Not all of use know what every single sponsor carries so if some one is asking about a product that is carried by a sponsor & a non-sponsor as residents of a free society should have all the info & the right to chose where to buy. If I can find something I am looking for somewhere other then a sponsor at a better price, where do you think I am going to go, that is unless the sponsor is going to buck up to offer a better deal.

Currently, vendors have the ability to edit posts in their own forum. Usually this is just to delete threads and posts. I dont think we have ever had an issue like this before with a vendor "putting words in someones mouth" as is what seems to have happened here. I, for one dont believe this should be allowed either and we are discussing what should be done about this.

Perhaps you can clarify something for me. What is considered a member/sponsor's forum? The post was put out by another member, or is all of Canreef a member/sponsors forum? I wouldn't have minded so much but this in my opinion crossed a very dangerous boundary. If I was to put a link {which I have seen a number of times} to a seller of a product either overseas or in the United States and the Canadian supplier didn't like it, apparently he can go in and edit my answer. If Canreef clarifies this position I will totally adhere to the decision rendered, but as I have stated before what happened here is my answer wasn't deleted or the post closed for comments ...my answer was changed. So in a nutshell so to speak, if a member ask's where to get something and a sponsor doesn't like my answer he has the ability to enter my reply and change it to what he wanted to see. That is my biggest concern. That would mean that Canreef would have to adjust their policies so that no link other than to a sponsor could be posted in a post. I am not trying to be overly anal about this but I think all members should be aware about the regulations regarding this.

This issue is being discussed by moderators. Please be patient as we scrutinize various moderator abilities in the sub-forums but do expect quick action. I have read the post in question and I have strong concerns how the thread was reworded.

The forum that the post was made in is the Bubble Magnus Club forum which is a subforum of Aqua Digital. He has several sub forums for each" of those forums. He has "control" of those forums as he is the representative vendor. This means he has the ability to edit and delete posts as he sees fit. The editing and deleting of posts is usually just housekeeping items or perhaps the occasional deleting of delinquent posters (?). Anyway, those forums that aren't in the vendor grouping on the main page do not belong to vendors they belong to members. If the post had been made in the main reef forum or perhaps the skimmer specific forum, your post would not have been able to be edited in that manner (unless a canreef moderator chose to and we do not edit posts to reflect other information, we only edit posts to delete inappropriate comments or delete the post altogether and send the poster a PM).

Basically, at this point, if you are wanting to give someone advice about a particular product, look to the top of the page and see what forum its in. if it doesn't say "vendor forums" as a sub heading, you're good to go. If it happens to be in Aqua Digitals forum its likely he'll change it.

Thanks Christy for explaining that to me, I was not aware that a sponsor or member had the ability to edit another members post. I guarantee I will watch my answers more carefully from now on, and what forum they are in.

no member has the ability to edit or delete another members post. however I was also unaware that a vendor could change a members post, actually I shouldn't say that, I was probably aware, its just that it had never been done and I couldn't imagine that a vendor would WANT to change a members post in that way. Anyway, it is being looked into, theres only 2 mods on right now so we're just waiting for the discussion to progress a bit more and then we'll take action if warranted.

don't watch your answers, its no fun if you're always having to second guess yourself but maybe yeah do pay attention to the forum as the vendors do pay to promote their products and only their products in those forums.

IMO, Regardless what forum or subforum a post is being posted in, the wordings of that post shouldn't be altered in any way by anyone. People can have permissions to delete the post, to lock the thread, but absolutely no altering permissions. It's just plain wrong.

vendors here have paid XXXX amount of dollars for the right to have a forum of their own to advertise what they carry and have in stock etc......These forums are paid for by the vendor and should be moderated by the vendor.......I myself have deleted posts out the the RC forum....mostly because the poster was being an A-hole.......for someone to go into one vendors forum and advertise the vendors competition is a bit of a slap in the face......No?.......

anyways......I digress.......to play the other side.......I dont think vendors should have the ability to change the words in a post.......it should be an all or nothing approach......either the post is deleted all together, or it is left alone...........JMO

:pop2:

I don't think the post was made to promote the competition, its more likely that when clicking on the link to the thread, the information on where the thread was located was missed. It was probably thought to be in the main forum. Sometimes in the excitement of actually having the answer to a question, this information can get missed. I know I've done it a few times but caught myself. Its just unfortunate this time.

I agree with Doug on this point, venders pay, we do not. I believe that they should have the right to moderate as they see fit, especially when it deals with the competition. (Now whether this was the case or not, I cannot say)

I bet at least 500 of your post are that icon aren't they? :razz:

Please stay on topic Christy, thanks.

Want for me to edit his post to say something else? lol

Ok, bad joke for this thread...

but funny:lol:

No, I would only agree that they have the right to remove such a post, not remove and insert words as it fits their needs, essentially impersonating the original poster.

I'd actually like to suggest we filter out posts containing the delicious popcorn when tabulating post-counts. Sorry I'm a stats whore and Kien's looking 500+ posts more knowledgeable as a result.

i agree totally its their forum so they should have editing power but i also believe all or nothing, not rewording;)

too soon brad, too soon!

I think I have caught up with what's transpired here and in that thread in question.. I would agree that Vendors should have the ability to perform "house keeping" that's limited to deletion of posts but ya, changing the words of someone's post, that's wrong in my opinion. Not that my opinion counts for anything other than another post count.

I could reset him to 2...:)

And this is why you are known as the "ROGUE MOD"

Kien, here is a new one for you http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...chdrama8jm.gif

DO IT.

http://th12.photobucket.com/albums/a...240-181194.gif

bahaha do it up brad and put newbie under his name,then remove the popcorn from the list:) man how does one get all these powers lol:)

I agree that as a sponsor on this site there has to be a bit of leeway in what is allowed, I had actually given a reference answer to a fellow Canreef sponsor, not a non member sponsor site{ I want to clarify this}So this other member has also paid to be a member as well. I was unaware of the boundaries of the supplier for this product but I want everyone to understand. I would gladly have changed/edited my post or would have accepted it being deleted with a reasonable explanation of why, but here is the meat of the dispute here...My answer was not deleted or wiped out, it was changed to a different answer completely making it look like my answer...which it wasn't. So I don't want to ruffle feathers here, I just want to know all the rules and boundaries so this doesn't happen again. I don't believe anyone on any forum or group has the right to change another persons answer. Delete it..sure in some cases absolutely, edit it if there is offensive language - you bet. Not change it though.

come on people let's focus!! Don't make me throw down the derail pic.

I like that the vendor apologized by the way.

We absolutely agree with you and are taking measures to ensure that this doesn't happen again.

Hello,

Here's what happened in summary. dsaundry made a post. Michael from Aqua Digital edited the post by changing the words referring to a different vendor. dsaundry posted in the thread asking why, reported the post to Canreef, and Michael replied in e-mail (I was CC and just saw the message) explaining why.

Essentially Christy has explained it. Sponsors do sponsor Canreef by paying to have their own forum. You can think of it like the mall analogy I always make.
Canreef = Shopping mall
Sponsor forums on Canreef = Stores in shopping mall
Moderation done by sponsors = Security hired by stores in shopping mall
Non sponsor forums on Canreef = General areas in shopping mall
Overall operation on Canreef = Management company running the shopping mall

In this case, I don't think dsaundry has said anything out of line in his post. What could have done better is Michael deleting dsaundry's post and messaging dsaundry the reason why.

The moderation permission granted to sponsors was never meant for them to put words in other members' mouth. As discussed this is the first time this have happened. I'll message Michael about this and explained the alternatives.

Titus

Thank you. That was my basic point with a few side issues which Christy has explained.

:biggrin:

I am glad most of the mods chimed in here to fill in the holes. Seeing as how it was the forum it was in I can see why things happened the way it happened but it was not the proper way to do it. I have receive lots of help from Micheal with my controller & he is very knowledgable.

But on the other side of the page, like I stated before I myself want to get the best price I can so if that means going away from sponsors that is what I need to do, SORRY SPONSORS ( wife's rules ) but that is just me. I have been self- employed for 6 yrs now so I know what it take to compete in a tough industry. Unfortunately some of the produce manufacture's of the equipment we use have a strangle hold on the retail price & the dealers just can't offer better prices & still make money.

Sorry for the rant, it my insomnia talking.

Thanks to ALL the mods for the educational info on how certain forum / sub-forum work.

One more thing before I head off to bed, I would like to apologize to Michael as I was not aware of his distributorship issues in Canada, I did not intend to cause him any grief over this and was only referring a member to a lfs store in the area. There was no malice or infringement intended and I am now a lot wiser on canreef policy. I will watch the forums and their rules a lot more closely in the future. Good night all.

Ps; A tribute to Kein:popcorn:

I put up a post expressing interest in a group order from one sponsor and was essentially spammed by another who saw my post and assumed I was looking to be solicited.

really ticked me off.

Would the vendors pay XXX to be here if we (the people..lol) weren't?
It's kind of a catch 22.

I think Canreef normally does an excellent job of keeping a middle ground, one event like this in all this sites years is no cause for concern.

I would hate to think though, that being a canreef member meant I could only use certain products from certain vendors if I wanted to share and communicate about them with this community.

The one aspect to this incident/issue that keeps getting misunderstood is the relationship between the vendors forum verses the canreef general forums. Basically as I understand it the general forums are open discussion. The vendor forums (link above vendor ad) are the vendor's specific spot on canreef for their business.

Perhaps they already exist but I would think some posting guidelines regarding the vendor forums may help a bit.