best frozen foods ?
 

looking for input on what is the best type of frozen foods? i have used mixed blend in the past as my tank only has 2 smaller fish in it (clown, 6 line wrasses)

any ideas are great, thank you

If you choose not to make your own frozen food which I think is the best than PE Mysis is a good product.There is alot of good home made recipes, just do a search. Kien has a good one.

Carefully read the label of all frozen and other fish and coral foods.

Some products are made in China and therefore the quality of the food is questionable.

I like homemade recipes too. They are cheaper, and you know the quality of the ingredients. However, with only two small fish it would be difficult to make a good homemade food without having way too much of it! My favourite frozen food and diet staple is PE Mysis. After that, I like San Francisco Bay brand.

"Ocean Fresh" plankton.....it's a salt water mysis shrimp..... Contains more of the omega and fatty acids that our salty friends would get naturally in the wild

I like the look of that one Doug! I use San Francisco Bay Plankton which is the same specie, but the Ocean Fresh brand looks like better quality.

I should probably add that I use Selcon with all frozen fish foods to provide essential fatty acids.

PE mysis is what I feed my fish
Neal

I know I'm gonna ruffle some feathers with this cuz people love their PE mysis........ But why would you feed a freshwater shrimp to a saltwater fish when there are saltwater equivalents?..... I'm just sayin:wink:

Because so far there hasn't been an equivalent readily available. The quality of the PE mysis is better than any other I have seen. I haven't even heard of Ocean Fresh until this thread. Also, when it comes to shrimp they all consume the same thing.

so your sayin that a freshwater shrimp eating a freshwater diet will have have the same nutritional benefits to our saltwater fish as a saltwater shrimp with a saltwater diet?:wink:

contact your LFS.....wholesale opportunities for "Ocean Fresh" are available

I've heard before that feeding your fish freshwater shrimp is better because the fish already has to rid of so much excess salt in the water so by feeding it a non salty food its less work/stress on them. (something like that, not sure if i got it right)

+1 on the PE mysis. This is the only other food that my copperband butterfly eats. Come to think of it, that fish mostly eat only non-saltwater diet for 9 months now...live white worms and PE mysis, with occasional mussel.

If it was so bad, he would not be as fat and healthy as he is right now.

It's not so great when your fish refuse to eat it because they prefer PE mysis, Just sayin :wink: Although it could be because my fish are so used to the PE mysis and I buy the larger packs so the PE mysis shrimp are larger then the Ocean fresh shrimp.

+1

where did you hear that from?.....fresh water mysis promotional material:razz:.....I dont know, but if that were true, all saltwater fish would congregate at the mouths of rivers and tributaries to eat fresh water food......cmon.....saltwater fish have evolved over millions of years......do you really think that they cant deal with salt?.....seems like kinda, a baseless piece of trivia........kinda like "fish can die from micro-bubbles"



sounds like I did ruffle some feathers:biggrin:........for the record I never said that PE mysis was bad...... I merely stated that there was a better option.......


well then your fish in each of your own little worlds must be representative of all fish:razz:.....kudos to you Daniella for trying the best you can to most accurately replicate what the animals you enclose in a glass box eat:mrgreen:....all I know is we have fed literally hundreds of fish at the shop with "ocean fresh" plankton and had great results.......probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 80% of the people that shop at RCC use ocean fresh and swear by it..........you two should maybe open your eyes and give something new a chance.......you know......kinda like "Ive been feeding my dog purina dog chow for 5 years and now he wont eat this other brand that should be better for him".......do you still continue to feed the dog chow?.....

I don't have a favorite but here are my top choices. I feed different food for different fishes needs.
Cyclopeeze for smaller fish(Nano), mandarins, coral, gorgs. I've never had a problem to get mandarins to take cyclopeeze as a first food. They are pod eaters so they get pods(cylopeeze)
PE Mysis has always been good but I like the ocean fresh plankton better. Similar in size but the strong shelfish smell of the plankton says it all for me. The feeding response of my corals was insane with the ocean fresh. As soon as it hit the water everything new it was feeding time. Too bad I can't find it here locally which is kind of funny because it's caught just north of here.
Hikari Mysis because they are way smaller then the PE mysis and a little bigger then brine shrimp. Sometime PE mysis are just too big.
Being right on the ocean, some of the best I feed would be stuff I get locally and freeze myself.(Uni-Urchin eggs, oyster ovary/eggs, herring roe)

I do think there is a difference, but I don't think it is significant enough to be concerned about. For the most part, the shrimp would have little nutritional differences even in a lab. The fatty acid profile would differ a bit, but it also differs from mackerel to sole. A shark and a trout are a bit different from each other, but a freshwater shrimp and a saltwater shrimp...not so much. Honestly, I don't think it makes that much difference. Especially when there are members of the same genus within both freshwater and saltwater eco-systems. If it made a big difference you wouldn't see so many breeders using mysis.

You don't ruffle my feathers. You do bring up a good point, albeit it's arguing Porsche over Mercedes...there isn't a bad choice! :p

probably because there hasnt been an economical alternative(or the market to support it) until recently.......much easier and more economical to harvest shrimp from a freshwater lake in BF nowhere Canada than it is to collect and harvest it from the ocean:wink:

If you want to get into details, most breeders use homemade diets, but PE mysis is often a part of it. Lots of clownfish breeders just use pellets/flake.

People have been collecting and using/selling all sorts of saltwater plankton for like ever Doug. :lol: Hikari or HBH or Sanfran Plankton and mysis are all same price.

How much fatty acids are more than they get in the wild? Why would you want to feed your salty friends more?

Supporting analytical data illustrates that PE Mysis has less Crude Fat (8.35% dry weight) compared to that of the Ocean Fresh (18% dry weight). The PE Mysis also has a higher Protein content (69.5% dry weight) compared to that of the Ocean Fresh (58% dry weight). High Ash content is one parameter that I have always watched. It appears that the PE Mysis is much less (5.5% dry weight) compared to that of your Ocean Fresh (13% dry weight). I cannot compare the heavy metal contents analysis, but do see that they exist within your Ocean Fresh.

I understand that the Aqua Treasures and the PE Mysis Shrimp are harvested from the same freshwater lake, however, I cannot find any comparable analytical data on them. I find them less Oily than the PE Mysis.

so I guess tens of thousands of years of evolution and feeding on food originating from where the fish actually lives have produced obese, unfit and unhealthy fish?....fact is........saltwater fish live, grow, thrive because of their environment and what they eat out there in the wild......we bring them into our little boxes and feed them "suitable substitutes" (in our eyes), get five years out of them and think ......."well he lived five years.....thats pretty dang good"......when, if left in the wild eating OCEAN FRESH plankton (a fatty, low protein, high ash food) they probably would have lived 10, 15, 20 years......now I dont seriously believe that diet is the only factor shortening a captive fishes lifespan, but.........

Ocean Fresh all the way.

are you forgetting, Mindy, that I probably have a generation on you.......sally's and others started with plankton based foods in the nineties....... fairly recent in the grand scheme of things:wink:

Wow a simple question sure turned in to alot of bickering. I take it Red Coral does'nt sell PE Mysis? Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but what does age really have to do with smarts?

nope.....RC sells PE mysis too......and as I stated before......I never said PE mysis was bad.....I just dont like when people automatically dismiss something because they are used to and are trained to believe in something else......I just feel I, as a reefer am trying to replicate, to the best of my ability, my little salty friends environment......from what I feed, to the salt I use(H2Ocean(a naturally evaporated salt))....... and I mention the age thing because I have been keeping fish for close to 25 years...... well before specialty foods like plankton were available

Wow Dougster you are old! :p



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I have hesitated to say anything as my sponsorship of CanReef is not yet in place. However, since it will be shortly, I would like to clarify a few points and add a few observations.

Mysis shrimp are harvested from the Okanagan Lake in BC. The Mysis life cycle is that they rise to shallower waters at night and then are deeper in the lake near the bottom during the day. They are normally caught at night.(info from P.E. in a personal conversation back in 2000).

Cyclopeeze are from a freshwater lake in Canada.

Euphasia pacifica, which is the shrimp in Ocean Fresh Pacifica Plankton is harvested in the coastal waters of B.C. It is frozen immediately after capture and Ocean Fresh processes the shrimp in that frozen state. When you thaw out Ocean Fresh Pacifica Plankton it will be the first time it has ever been thawed since it was caught. There are many other producers of plankton but they are all thawing, rinsing the product, adding about 40% water and then refreezing. Some process it in the US and others process it in China. Ocean Fresh is more costly than the competitors as Pacifica Plankton is all plankton and NO water and processed in BC.

Euphasia pacifica is one of the primary ingredients in the pellet mix that some of the commercial food fish hatcheries use.

The reason that Sockeye Salmon and Coho Salmon have pinkish red flesh is due to feeding on Euphasia pacifica(Pacifica Plankton) in the wild. It is the high levels of Astaxanthin in the Euphasia pacifica(Pacifica Plankton) that causes this.

I have found that wild fish will immediately recognize this as a food source. Hatchery Bred Fish on the other hand will prefer flake or pellet as that is what they are used to. I have observed this in thousands of fish over ten+ years as a wholesaler. I have had fish that were obligate coral feeders eat the Pacfica Plankton. I have had two different species of fish lay egg masses in my fish holding systems. I attribute that to the regular diet of Pacfica Plankton that they received. The fish were Neopomacentrus azysron(bare tank) and Valenciennia longipinnus(bare tank with a sand bottom and pvc pipe).

Corals also have the same reaction to Pacfica Plankton as wild fish do. Everything from Acans to Dendro's to Fungia to Trachyphyllia will immediately extend their polyps in a feeding response.

There has been a lot of Internet discussions about feeding Goldfish to predatory marine fish... a freshwater food source to a marine fish. I have trained numerous Lionfish and Eels to eat Pacifica Plankton.

In my opinion adding Selcon type additives to Pacifica Plankton is not necessary as the nutritional profile is already complete. Selcon type additives are great for Brine Shrimp but not needed for the Pacifica. Save your money for corals :-).

Seahorses will eat the Pacifica Plankton before Mysis when both feeds are added to the tank at the same time.

I have used PE Mysis and Pacifica Plankton and they are both high quality feeds. Your fish will only do better by your feeding them these foods. I feel that the nutritional profile of Pacifica Plankton is superior to mysis as it is a marine source. As well it does not expend it's energy reserves swimming 500 feet from the bottom of the lake to near the surface to feed and get caught.

Cheers,
Tim

The fact is that marine fish have a varied wild diet, but there are various comparable products on the market. Euphausia pacifica is certainly not the soul diet of the fish we keep and particularly those from warmer oceans. These fish certainly consume more than the product that you are marketing here on Canreef.

While this is true....... Euphausia Pacifica harvested from the ocean off the coast of BC (and elsewhere I'm assuming) is a much closer representation of what a saltwater fish may eat in the wild than a shrimp harvested from a lake in BC:wink:

I'm not that far behind you Doug. I had my fish freshwater tank in 1988, and first saltwater tank in 1992 or 1993. It helps that I'm quite a bit older than I look, albeit you do have some years on me you old fart. :p I don't know what foods were available at that time because I only had one saltwater store to shop at (which was in the USA) and no internet to help figure things out. I know I had some sort of frozen food...can't remember what it was. Just in the last 10 years have people been looking towards diet as the cause of ailments such as HLLE and HITH, albeit now "they" think that carbon might play a bigger role than anything.

I imagine the food requirements of fish stuffed into a little box are probably less demanding than their wild counterparts. Take a look at the dog food world...there has been a trend to go to grain-free, high protein kibble to mimic a wild dog's diet. The trouble with that is there are a bunch of couch potatoes being fed the diet of a body builder.

I'm all for feeding "natural" diets to all my pets, but I don't see it as the be all end all, and definitely not a cure all. Just because something looks right, doesn't mean it is best.

I don't think you're wrong Doug, in fact I think you`re likely "onto something"...not necessarily a new something. :lol:

I like to feed frozen hotdogs...

hmmm... hotdogs... the particle board of meat. ;-) I saw a billboard ad for some fast food. "Meal for one, salt for four". I think hot dogs fit into the fast food category as well.

A varied diet is very important for health of people and animals. I know if people eat too high a protein level they can get Kidney disease and gout, if you feed rabbits too high of a protein content they get sores on their feet. Ducks are the same way. The question is are fish the same way since they are a much smaller creature and are also cold blooded? In the fish world there seems to be the trash cans which eat anything and then the coral polyp eaters which only eat polyps from certain genus of corals. So who knows?

I have found that our little wet friends are able to tolerate only so much stress, once past that point they breakdown with some disease and die. By providing a nutritionally complete food, a glass box with natural type surroundings and stable water conditions we can keep their stress levels manageable. When one of those three goes out of wack then they tend to breakdown. A prime example is the Ick storms after a big heat wave or temperature fluctuation. IMHO the most important parameter is stable water conditions, then surroundings(which includes tankmates) and then food. If they have a low stress level then perhaps they may be better able to tolerate fluctuations when they happen?

The purpose of keeping our little wet friends is to admire their inherent beauty. By feeding the Pacifica Plankton the natural colours of our fish and corals are naturally brought out. With the immune boosting properties of the plankton and it's natural colour enhancing ability why would one not want to feed something so beneficial?

Cheers,
Tim

Off topic,

How do you like that salt? I'm just finishing off my third pail of it and I think I'm going to continue to use it but its always nice to hear other peoples thoughts.

There's lots of threads discussing it. Go search. :)

I use a variety of foods as I find that like humans most fish like a varied diet, Even my Cbb eats a few different things, bloodworms, Ocean Fresh, and several different types of pellets all go into my tank at different times for feeding. I have noticed that my fish will eat all sorts of foods, Nori is another addition that my fish love, I also go to Superstore and get some live clams and cut them up for the fish as well. One thing that I found out is live clams although boring to look at can survive in a reef tank, dropped a couple in by accident and they buried themselves and a few weeks later were just fine, so I don't know but being filter feeders I guess all good so far. There is even a frozen seafood medley you can buy at the local grocery stores that cut up into small pieces also works well. Best advise is try different things , watch how your fish respond and whatever combo's work best....USE THEM.:biggrin:

Been using it for three years...... I like it:biggrin:

I'm going to do an experiment. I am going to cut out PE mysis for 6 months, and feed Pacifica plankton instead. I feed other things too, but mysis has made up 50%. Now plankton will make up 50%. I'll see if I notice anything. I'm don't expect to see any difference - one way or the other.

Done!


[IMG]http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa180/RParker_07/Iman*******-1.jpg[/IMG]

PMs work. ;)

Great idea!

Doug,

I sent you a PM asking you if you like the salt you're using.

Buahah :lol:.