Likely the only group to talk about Moo
 

Sam raised this awesome moorish idol and gave it a personality. I am the fortunate foster home.

I know when Sam gets his 500g Moo will go.... :cry:

Moorish idols are pretty.

It is a nice fish. Did you wanna talk about it? :razz:

Yeah, I did Brad.. :razz:

But you missed the moment. :mrgreen:

That happens a lot to me lately... :rolleyes:

A real Moorish Idol? wow superb fish. I'm used to seeing the false ones.

Doug

You're giving her back to Sam? Yeah right :rolleyes: Not bloody likely :wink:

No worries. I know the secret to keeping them alive so I will get another one when I get another tank.

Well come on Sam give it up.... I want one too but I've given up on hard to keep fish, I hate watching a beautiful fish die.


Doug

Ah! Looks like Moo's gonna be calling your place home now :cry:
I guess you can now take the baracade's down and the electrical fencing from around your new tank now Deb :mrgreen:
I used to love watching him feed at Sam's place, maybe you can send me a photo of him for me Deb :cool:

Ive only had one Morish Idol die on me out of about 15 I have gotten in, and it didnt ship very well, died in a day... Get your blender out and mix up some clams, mussles, squid, spirilina, nori, mysis, and any other stinky fish food you can find, blend it till its mushy with some chunks, get out some dry small pieces of base rock around the size of your fist, and smear the stinky crap all over 1 side of the base rock, now you dry it in the oven with the oven on really low, once dry, put various food rocks in freezer bags and throw them in the freezr. After your morish idol has been in the tank for a day, drop one of the food rocks in and they usually go to town in a short time. If they still dont seem to be eating enough, I usually pull them out of the tank and put them in a water tray, similar to a baking pan, and I put a plastic syringe down their throat and pump them full of yogurt, mysis, and appetite stimulant, once Ive done that, I have never had another problem with one... After all that has been done, they get used to normal feeding procedures.

Man I'm never comin over to your house for dinner. What if I didn't like the food? :razz:

That seems like a lot of trouble to go through Underworld,
kinda like spliting a donut coral :razz: :biggrin:

we have a special trough for people like you...lol

no clue how to spell, trough?troff???

Christy, did you check your PM :razz:

Yeah its a bit of trouble to go through, but it lets me not worry about bringing morish idols in, I plann on having a school of them in my big display... its less of a bother than spliting a donut coral...

I'm glad I remembered to put my coffee down before reading your post. Otherwise I'm sure I would snorted more out my nose onto my poor monitor as I read your reply. The IT folk at my office are starting to wonder why I keep asking for more screen wipes!

I know when force feeding fish you need to wait till the gills are.. is it open or closed? I can't remember.

Doug

if you put the syringe down into their stomac, it really dosent matter...

how do you get them to open their mouth?

"say ahhh"

I cant even catch my fish, let alone hold one long enough to put a syringe down its throat.

lol, you dont get them to do anything, its called manhandling...
alot of people treat fish like delicate butterflys, they are pretty durably actually, if people treated their fish a little rougher when they just started to get ill, they would have alot better luck at treating them. By rougher i mean, grab your starving fishy, pry their mouth open and stuff them full of food, when they have ick or velvet, get out the soft bristle toothbrush and give them a vigirous scrub, when they have bloat, stab them with a real syringe and drain the air out(this takes a little more skill), if they have a bad parisite, cut it out, Ive cut out gill tissue and not had problems. Most people dont seem to treat their sick fish untill their fish is really sick, then its too late...

Man I'd like to come up there and give you a vigorous scrub with a man sized toothbrush. I hope you aren't serious. :eek:

Im very serious, nothing wrong with a good scrubbing. A little skin rash is better than death...
P.S. I showered, thanks for the offer though....

Well I certainly hope most people, especially new reefers don't read your "fabulous" methods. How would you like to be squeezed and have half your side scrubbed off by a rough toothbrush?? No toothbrush in the world is soft enough to not lift scales off a fish. That would be like rubbing your skin off. Scales are a fish's last protection against infection and you are rubbing it off! So yeah, the fungus is gone, but what about all the other things that you've now opened the fish up to? Clipping a fish's gills is a tricky operation. You do realize those are blood vessels you are cutting, too deep and the fish bleeds to death. Fish blood coagulates faster than humans but once you've severed an artery thats that. And the handling (manhandling as you call it) stresses the crap out of the fish which causes a myriad of biochemical reactions in the fish and suppresses its immune system.


So tell me how long do these fish last in your care or do you farm them off right away after they're eating or don't have the ugly parasites on them and look more desirable for your customers?

Christy, actualy I have read books recomending all the things he listed.

even with sea horses it is said you might have to use a seringe to suck air from the males pouch.. I am sure they don't just sit there and let you do this :mrgreen:

still the better fix is prevention.

Steve

:eek: Do you have a waiting list for this yet or is there still time to get in on it? :mrgreen:

Steve

lol... that does sounds interesting doesn't it?

:biggrin:

"Well I certainly hope most people, especially new reefers don't read your "fabulous" methods."

Dont worry, most will just put some medication in the tank just before their fish dies, coloured water is nicer to die in mabey?

"How would you like to be squeezed and have half your side scrubbed off by a rough toothbrush?? No toothbrush in the world is soft enough to not lift scales off a fish. That would be like rubbing your skin off. Scales are a fish's last protection against infection and you are rubbing it off! So yeah, the fungus is gone, but what about all the other things that you've now opened the fish up to? "

If I had a parisite half sticking out of my skin, or a legion that wouldnt go away, I would go to the hospital and get it removed and scrubed clean, then go on antibiotics for abit to help me fight off infection that I am now seceptible too.

"Clipping a fish's gills is a tricky operation. You do realize those are blood vessels you are cutting, too deep and the fish bleeds to death. Fish blood coagulates faster than humans but once you've severed an artery thats that." "

I relize what it is that Im doing, I understand the anatomy of a fish, and I dont reccommend most trying this unless the fish appears to be a goner for sure, but when a fish comes in with a bad parisite infection in its gills, and the tissue is damaged and rotting, it will spread and the fish will soon die, by cutting out the dead, or infected material, the fish lives, a much better option in my books.

"And the handling (manhandling as you call it) stresses the crap out of the fish which causes a myriad of biochemical reactions in the fish and suppresses its immune system. "

This is something that is done when a fish is already in trouble, otherwise I leave them alone, suppressing their immune system, and stressing them out is the least of their worries when their about to die unless I interveen.

"So tell me how long do these fish last in your care or do you farm them off right away after they're eating or don't have the ugly parasites on them and look more desirable for your customers?"

Your speculation is ignorant, at least thats the way it comes off... we specialize in high end marine life, people dont walk off the street and buy from us, our business is by a appointment only and we only offer quality livestock, fish that come in rough are treated as necessary, held untill healed up well, and eating vigirously, most of our fish are feeding by hand before going into our customers tanks, why would we pawn off sick crap fish if we wanted return business??? Most of customers have tanks that are maintianed by us, I dont want to deal with a tank full of sick fish, only healthy specimens are sold. On average, most fish are probably with us for a min of 1 month before going into our customers tanks. When you are dealing with a single fish that costs us $1500-$2500 wholesale, you go to great lengths to make sure the fish is healthy, I have always just carried over the same care with lesser costing fish as well. I think it is a little rude how you word your assuming comments. If you didnt mean it in a demeaning way, Im sorry for getting in a huff, but I pride myself in our quality....

While the methods mentioned seem bizarre and extreme to some, this isn't the first time I've seen them mentioned either. It's a frustrating experience that we read about all too often where an aquarist watches helplessly as a fish dies, even as various cures are attempted.

I guess a rough treatment that works is better in the end than a bunch of lost causes that don't save the animal.

Not that I'd try the syringe thing, though... :eek:

:smile:

Yeah, that does sound nasty.. I don't know a fishes anatomy enough to attempt that treatment. All in all I can see his point however. I have had some pretty interesting medical surgeries that I think was cruel and unusal punishment :biggrin: but it did the job. :eek:

:biggrin:

Another point to add, as Steve said, prevention is the best defense! At the same time, when you are wholesaleing marine life and get in thousands of fish per year, you can see some strange diseases, parisites, and other infections, the first week of a new livestock shipment is like running a hospital emergency room, making sure everyone is ok...

Christy has the qualifications to speak about this subject given her profession I must say. :rolleyes:

And I fully agree with her - presenting this kind of information to a bunch of newbies who might actually try it is frightening to say the least.

In light of the post topic just let me say - DO NOT go out and buy a Moorish Idol thinking that a force feeding and a good scrub is going to change the historical difficulty in keeping this fish.

And that's my opinion. :mrgreen:

Your point is valid, and I would say, given "my" profession, I think I have the qualifications to address the subject... This list is not just full of newbies, it has alot of members that are ready to start emergency tratement of sick fish, and for the newbies, what do you have to loose if a fish is very ill and soon to croak without intervention, to me its like seeing a person spraying blood out of a laceration, are you going to say Im not a doctor I cant do anything, or could you try your best and try to save that person??? Siting infront of your tank and watching your sick fish dies has far too long been a pastime of hobbiests, why not do something risky and try to save it? Its worth the risk to me, cuz watching a sick fish flutter and die just aint fun. If you screw up, it dies, big deal, practise makes perfect and if you didnt do anything it would have died anyway... (its like operating on a not quite dead cadaver..lol)Im not saying do something drastic at the first sign of a problem, but when you have tried all the usuall methods of healing and the fish is about to croak, what does anyone, newbies included have to lose??? And I agree with you that not everyone should go and buy a morish idol, but alot of people who know what their doing can keep them if they went to a little effort....

Actually I think its the fact that you're doing all of this without any kind of sedation that bothers me. And the going to the hospital comment. When they are cutting things out and scrubbing, they just go ahead and don't stop when you are screaming. Oh thats right, fish can't do that. Theres a reason the SPCA was created. If thats the kind of hospital emergency room you are running, I suggest you talk to the local vet about getting some anaesthetic, I highly doubt you'd be getting any return customers if these animals could talk.


Bah, why do I even bother :rolleyes:

Haha, you guys are goofs. Hmm, maybe I should check for those toothbrushes on ebay :razz:

tools of the trade :mrgreen:

I dont do it without sedation,(I use Tricaine-s)but most hobbiests dont have a fish sedditive in their medicine cabnient.... and a fish going owy,owy,owy, is alot better than their fish going in the toilet...When you go to the hospital they do what needs to be done to save your life, i do the same for my fish... when your squirting blood and they apply pressure and you say it hurts, they dont let go... Why dont you try asking questions instead of making ignorant comments directed towards me.... :rolleyes:

Well when you're making posts about how to do this and that, maybe you should give us all the info, especially when doing something like this. Thank you for clarifying that you do sedate the fish. Please accept my apologies for jumping to conclusions. And thanks for calling me ignorant, that was really nice of you. I guess my biology degree was all for naught. :rolleyes:

Moderator please close this thread. :rolleyes:

I gave any info a hobbiests would need, they dont "need" a sedative...

Ignorant,
1.Lacking education or knowledge.
2.Showing or arising from a lack of education or knowledge
3.Unaware or uninformed

You made an ignorant comment towards me, you could have asked how i did it, you were uninformed about what I do and made comments on it