Show Us Your LED Tanks
 

I had a discussion with a buddy yesterday about LED lights. He figures that they are the best thing going and bring out the colors more. I'm not sold on them. Those of you that have an LED fixture on your tank (tanks 100G and up) can you please post a FTS for those of us that are curious. The monthly cost savings over MH is huge I know. It's the look i'm interested in seeing.

The savings are not huge, you may save money in the long run but your payback period will be a few years or more depending on how you look at it. Typically you can use about half the power with LEDs and on a 100 gallon tank you'd probably save around 250W which if run 10 hours a day will save you around $60 a year depending on what you pay for electricity. Your basic LED retro kit will cost around $1200 for 100 gallons and your basic halide retro kit will cost around $600 (ballast, reflector, sockets and cords). Based on replacing bulbs every year and the additional electrical cost you'd be about even after about 3.5 years. So provided you plan on keeping your tank for more than 4 years it may be worth while from a savings point of view.

As for color, I don't think you get better results from LEDs but this tends more to be personal preference. I find that MH's have the potential for a more broad spectrum which gives a better balance for various coral colors. T5s are also really good for coral color for similar reasons and that you can mix and match various bulbs to meet your preference. I find that with only using white and blue LEDs the colors in many corals are not spectacular by any means, you could add other color LEDs for better results but preforming this experimentation isn't as easy as changing a T5 or MH bulbs.

Also pictures can be misleading, I can take a picture of any coral under any light and make it look way better than in person. Cameras can adjust color and light balance much better than our eyes.

I agree, savings are not huge. I pay about 25/mo to run my MH, so cut that in half for LED, and it's not a tremendous saving. And since I'm not great with building little things, I'd need to buy a fixture, and at over 4k, it would take me years to break even. And given that I still believe MH will give me the best results, I can't justify going to LED until prices drop way down and they've really proven themselves. The main attraction for me would be the heat factor, but for light quality, I'm likely always going to be a hard core MH fan.

Yeah the major attractions for LEDs for me is heat and control. Heat not so much because I've never had a real issue using 500W of halide on a 100 gallon tank, a small fan and open top keeps the heat down even on hot summer days without AC. The control factor though is pretty cool but it does add cost depending on what you want to do and whether you already have the controller.

The other problem stopping me is that I've never had the same tank for longer than 3 or 4 years so I don't know if the extra cost would be worth while just for some extra control features.

I think LED is the way to go if you plan to keep your tank a while. The current pre-built fixtures out there can leave a bit to be desired, although in Canada we tend to look at only a couple of the fixtures and then make our decisions. It seems that the reef conferences of late have been filled with companies bringing LED technology to reefing but when we discuss LED on Canreef, a lot of the discussion is around the Vertex which is crazy money.
I plan on building a DIY fixture which I will attach to a controller for on/off and dimming. I am in the planning stages of my 290G and previously was going to go with MH / T5 combo (again DIY though, not a fixture) and my plans were going to cost me about $900. Now that I've gone with LED instead (purchased half the items already) the cost to light my 7' tank is going to be closer to $2000 but I'll pay that back in 2 years in bulb costs and electricity alone (not factoring in a chiller if it had been needed). If I build it right, I think there is a good chance that I can try to achieve the 10 years of life that these should give you. There is more elbow grease involved but I'm okay with that.
As for coloring, many of the most recent DIY LED fixtures have found that by mixing in some neutral whites and some normal blues, the colors that we really want can be achieved.

You're going to save $1100 in two years with bulbs and electrical savings? Wow, what were your original plans exactly? If you don't mind me asking.

right now, MH is the way to go.

LED is an emerging technology who's applications keep growing.

what costs you 4k today will be 1k in 4 years and probably be a more refined product to boot.

I was really close to buying a Vertex...bought into V.RLM and made some good dough but after having a good look at it, I decided to wait it out and see what the next 2 or 3 versions look like.


Anyone else remember when even a basic t5HO would cost you twice what it does now?

I don't recall a time T5HOs where much more than they are now, I remember some fixtures costing more than others but it's still that way. The difference I find is that back then fixtures and bulbs were hard to get in Canada and you had to order them from the states which cost a lot with shipping and duty. Maybe I'm not going back as far as some others remember.

I don't really buy into the fact LEDs will come down as much as people seem to think. Prices will drop a little as more competition comes in and more products become available but I don't expect to see a 4K fixture sell for 1K in a few years unless it's discontinued, refurbished or used. You can buy cheap LED fixtures now but they don't have controllers or quality LEDs. Solaris fixtures were pricey when they came out and that was quite a long time ago yet today's fixtures are still in the same range if not more, they are however better fixtures but that's the same with any market (this years cars are better than last years but new price is still the same). So how long before LEDs are cheap? We're not getting any younger :lol:

Cant agree with you there.
LED business is EXPLODING, there are tonnes of new developments in the technology and manufacturing process and more and more companies joining the fray either directly or through joint ventures...this is called an emerging market and the automobile market is an established and stagnant market with no new players joining the fray for some time....electronic vehicles however fit perfectly into the emerging market category with the first all electric Chevy volt having a stocker of arund 45,000$ (and the first one sold at auction for over 200,000$) with Chevy already anticipating a better version (longer travel per charge) and a lower sticker price in the next model year...

This is just the laws of supply and demand at work here, as more competiton enters the supply side, competition leads to lower prices unless there is as much of a significant increase in demand..which given the hobby, seems unlikely.

Look at how much an old aqualight Advance would have cost you 7 or 8 years ago...over 2K for a 48" one and all they had was MH...no led or supplements.

now you can buy a comparable unit for less than half of that price that comes with LEDs and supplements and offer a better design to boot.

There are already these "cheap" designs you metioned...these will only get more advanced as time goes by...I would be shicked if n the next 3 years, we didnt have a "cheap" model that rivalled everything the current Vertex can do and then some.

This process has already been slowed down due to some patent issues (pfo solaris anyone) in the states but that too wll pass and lead to a eve bigger wave of manufacturers getting involved.

I think something that will effect what you're talking about is how the types of lighting are attained. With mh and T5 you have a few bulbs in a setup. The bulbs aren't going to get much cheaper. LED units contain hundreds of these repeating parts and their cost I would assume will drop quite a bit from where they are now. With there being so many of them in a unit their unit price doesn't need to go down that much for the overall price to be affected a lot.

This thread has gone off topic already. :) Replies (mine included) without photos are outnumbering replies with photos 10-0. :)
Full Tank Shots please.... :lol: Just a friendly comment. I guess since this is not in the pictures forum, it is fair game for discussion.

I think there's so few shots like the ones requested that we're sorta filling that void while we wait =)

I have to disagree with a lot of the posts, there is a tremendous savings potential we'll use brads tank as a example.

3x 400 watt MH set up comparing apples to apples your looking at 300-400 each for the first set up with bulbs so 900-1200 bucks.

initial set up for LED 4000 for a store bought, say 1200 for a DIY (which Brad could do if I still lived close :mrgreen:)

cost of a chiller for brads tank is say 400. (most likely more) and power for MH is going to be about 550 watts each for a total of 1675 watts.

power for LEDs is going to be about 300 watts for that tank.

so power cost wise using brads example of 25 bucks a month to run the MH, 5 bucks a month to run the LEDs but we'll say 8 bucks.

now at 50,000 hours the LEDs will have to be changed after 11 years running 12 hours a day

so thats 10 bulb changes for the MH at 300 bucks a change for diecent bulbs.

Oh we forgot the T5's/VHO, ect for suplemental lighting with the MH so another 70 bucks a year.

so lets add it all up over an 11 year period.

MH
3300 in electricity. (not including the suplamantal lighting)
3700 in bulb changes
900 for initial setup very cheep side or 1200 normal
400 for the chiller (cheep side) and say 2000.00 in power to run it for 11 years. most likely it will not last that long but we'll assume you don't need to buy another one.

this comes to a total of 10300 over 11 years.. kinda depressing when you think about it now :mrgreen:

LED
bought option
4000 for fixture
1056 to run it
0 for bulb changes
0 for chiller as I know the only reason I needed one was because of my MH light in victoria

so 5056 bucks for 11 years.
if he did a DIY set up and even spent 2000 on it then he would be just over 3K for 11 years.


now both of these are assuming there are no premature bulb failures which I had in about 1/5th of the MH I bought and I would suspect that there would be a smaller number of failures with LEDs.

lets talk about the pros and cons of each asside from setup and operating costs.

Color.

MH you are stuck with 1 color untill you change out bulbs. the LED set up you have an infinate range of color blending between royal blue and cool white (6500K to about 30K) with the LED if you don't like the color one day you can switch it at whim by changing the dimming levels of one color or the other.

New corals

MH you have to place New frags low in the tank and or come up with a screening method to reduce the amount of light till they are used to it.

LED you can placve your corals in there spot and drop your intensity and slowly bring it back up over any time period you want with out screening or moving the light

Heat. MH are a radiant heat source, LEDs are not. need I say more on this.. could mean the difference of using a chiller or not.

controlability.

MH do not dim.

Leds can be turned on at 1% of there power and raised in 1% incraments over any time perior you select. you can also do this with the blue then with the white and reverse at the end.
If you want you can also rig your white LEDs to simulate lightning and other visual effects like clouds and such depending how there set up.

finaly light spillage. MH ratiate 360 degrees so you need good reflectors to gain the advantage of all the light and even then your not getting it all.

Leds are also a point source light but they are directional and with optice you can direct your light only where needed not using reflectors with no light spillage which requires larger canopys and housings.

Steve

I retrofitted some reefbrite LED strips into a 4 bulb Tek fixture

Here's the thread
http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=67874

My biggest reason to do this was I hate the flat look that flourescent lights only give a tank and this tank is small enough I was worried about heat from a MH.

This thread is worthless without pictures.... :wink:


Taken moments ago:

http://i390.photobucket.com/albums/o...s/P1020937.jpg

One more white balanced:

http://i390.photobucket.com/albums/o...s/P1020940.jpg


Some frags:

http://i390.photobucket.com/albums/o...s/BlueAcro.jpg

http://i390.photobucket.com/albums/o...s/P1020941.jpg

48" Vertex Illumina SR 1200-200 Philips Rebel LED's

wow on the picture

im all about LEDs. If you havent seen one light up in person, you are missing out. I literally fell out of my chair seeing just one CREE XP-G light up.

Steve, Im gonna need to see your math on this one.

The tank I have is 7' long by 32" wide...My original plans were for 3 x 250w DE MH, 8 x 39w T5's. I was planning on running Giesemann MH bulbs and ATI / KZ T5HO mixture. Since I live in the Okanagan, everything is expensive as I either buy it local at an outrageous price or pay to ship it in...bulbs usually being one of the things that don't qualify for free shipping.

$104 x 3 MH =$312 (J&L pricing)
$30 x 8 T5HO = $240 (J&L)


$550/year and I don't think you get a full year out of T5's so I was looking at $1100 over two years with no electrical savings calculated in yet.

not math.. called an extra key stroke. I'll fix it haha

Wow! Nice pics with the Illumina 200. That looks like a PAR monster. I hear the 260 is even stronger.

I like my MH, but they sure give off a lot of heat. In the summer that can be problematic and expensive with a chiller. I use fans. They're effective if directed to blow over the surface of the DT. They're noisy and a bit of an eyesore.

I've decided to dump the MH to cut down on electricity and for the features that LED's offer (dimmable!). I'm waiting for an Aquaillumination SOL Blue unit. With this one I can simulate sunrise/sunset and storms. Every dinner time, I'll have the tank experiencing an electrical storm (the DT is right beside the dinner table). I can tie it into my Neptune Apex controller and have some fancy timers set up for such things.

I looked at one of these the other night, and wasn't impressed. The spacing on the bulbs causes a flicker between the blue and white lights in the shimmer you get through the water. Also, the indivudual pods of lights were too far apart, causing different areas of brightness, even over individual corals near the surface.
I also looked at a DIY light and was much more impressed.

Good discussion and off topic is good too, keep up the "debate". I too am for MH and I have seen a tank with the Vertex LED and was not impressed. The pics that Dogfather put up look great! Lets see some more from others please.

Depending on where your tank is you might actually WANT the heat from a mh setup. My basement is always very cold and I'm sure those terribly dated bulbs are going to help heat my tank. I don't think I'll even come close to needing a chiller but we'll see.

Not 100 Gallons but here is our LED Tank
 

http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/q...s/photo-22.jpg

Up since the summer, corals are ok, i'd like to see more blue but Ecoxotic are apparently in the stages of getting something controllable out.


Ocean Aquatics

I have a 8 bulb t5 and in the process of upgrading to LED...
thought about going with MH, but a 6 foot 3 x 250W MH fixture is already ~$1500, add in ballast ~$400, 3 MH bulbs say $120 each and 4 x T5 bulbs @ $22 each
that is already ~$2500 for the whole set up.
every year to year and half another $400 for bulb changes + electricity cost
within 2-3 yrs it already pays for a $4000 LED fixture.

Thats not a good excuse aquattro! Building a LED fixture is dead simple and people on here will walk you through it.

Actually better yet. If anyone in Vancouver area feels that they cant build their own fixture, ill build it for you, no cost to you, just buy the parts + iron. Ill even do some 3d designing for you.

*** actually i better say first couple people just in case i get flooded

*sigh* too bad im from Alberta :P

I will hold a frag swap in the last week of feb., maybe a plan to show some DIY lights, I have one running at the time, and have my LED order from milad, and hope to have them ready to run as well at that time, maybe there are othersthat want to show some LED DIY builds as well at that time (in case thy are not above a tank yet.

so far the corals under the LED are going great, and thy arnt even CREE, and are a mix of 50 white and 50 blue, not the 2 part blue and one part white.

I wil put a picture up of it

250W phounix VS 50/50 led (no cree)
 

se picture

No, you don't understand. My really complex electrical project right now is connecting my fans to the adapter :) Me and wires, well, not so good. And the intricate detail work, not really me either.

So I'll put my name up tho for a rain check on the building, just in case I ever change my mind -lol

Here are some LED tanks from some of my clients.

Disclaimer: I am also the manufacturer and designer of the InWatter LED. Not really trying to promote our products as we don't sell to Canada yet but want to point out that LED tanks (any brand) can look great if done correctly. (ie using good quality chips to start with)

Hey Brad...we both know some one with a slight nerd wiring skill-maybe he could help!!! Cheers Ronnie

I have to admit, the light looks good from these, and some of the control features are, well, cutesy. Nothing like a good lightning storm over a reef, not that I would use that feature.
I've read a few threads where people reported good or great results with SPS tanks, but only for a limited time. I guess when some RC TOTM with neon colors gets posted, and a subsequent follow up 2 or 3 years later shows consistent results, I would consider it. Assuming I could do it cheaper than today, and/or someone was going to build it for me.

Pretty sure he's booked up for the next little while on these projects :)

I was over there the other night, and his setup is certainly nice, and the color is awesome, but again, no long term history to consider yet.
I know what my 400w radiums can do in a year, I haven't seen the LED results yet, or not enough anyway.

Read my mind Brad. Yeah they do look nice but I always adopt what's got a solid track record already. I don't have the budget to experiment or take many chances.

Brad, does some one here on the island have one? I wanted to take a look at one in person for some comparisons.

Ya, Gareth's mother-in-law has one.

I think madreefer was talking about me... ;) all good. Here is how the conversation sparked. I have a 120g 4' x 2' x 2'. I have a ballast that is no good anymore. so I need a ballast.... I also need bulbs as I am due for new bulbs... I would need two... Most likely need a new pendant for my new ballast I have to replace... maybe... maybe not.

But lets pretend for argument I'm a newbie and I have to get new stuff to get my tank running.

$70 for a bulb
$130 for a pendant
$140 for a ballast
_________
$340 for 250w setup on the cheaper end......

4' tank I should be running 2... so I'm $680 now.

Vertex is just releasing in Feburary a new LED setup that is $500 or $580ish can't remember right off the top of my head for the 4' bar. No controller to make a pretty lighting storm as I wouldn't care for that anyways. Also a MH can't do that unless were starting them up for the split second you might get one ;)

I can also add more bars if need be.... 60,000hrs of life 2 year warranty.

I think the cost is coming inline as in start up costs.

Now let pretend cost isn't the concern right now... just the growth of a health aquarium we are all suppose to have ;) I don't like killing corals and it is also killing my pocket book ;)

Who is seeing growth from the LED lights?? how long have you had them? can you show a photo? Just to help us on the fence people. I believe in MH but looking for a longer term light.

Left: Weipro LED
Middle: KEY Aquarium LED
Right: Marineland Reef LED
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_Bdkca4dIJ6A/TT...0/DSC_0644.jpg

This is no where near 100g but here is my Led lit tank now in CUC added mode.
It uses 3 par38 spotlight leds.
1 27w IceCooLed (Oceanic Corals for purchase) 12k (but looks like 10k to me)
2 21w Nanotuners 12k

http://i382.photobucket.com/albums/o...01-14-2011.jpg
http://i382.photobucket.com/albums/o...01-18-2011.jpg