My employer wont pay me. Now what can I do?
 

I did some work for a general contractor at the start of May. He said that he would pay me $15/hr and I worked for 27 hours. So he owes me $405 but has not paid me a cent. I call his home once a week to remind him and he rarely answers. So I leave messages but he has not returned one of my calls since May the 12th. Foolishly I don't have a written contract so its just my word against his. He claims to be too broke to pay but I don't believe him. I've offered to take money in installments and even less money than what he owes me. But still I have not received anything. I've been told that I could try BC Labour Relations to resolve this. Do I have any other options? I know which street he lives on but not which house...

He uses Craigslist and kigigi to find work and actually has an add posted right now http://princegeorge.en.craigslist.ca...743179068.html http://princegeorge.kijiji.ca/c-resu...AdIdZ205332468

You could threaten to put a Lien on whatever property you worked on for upaid workers. legal threats work wonders.

A very similar thing happened to me (I was owed for something like 28 hours at the same rate from a landscaping company)... nothing was written... but yeah my dad knew about this trick and called the owners (who hired me) and suggested they pay 'the honest kid' for my work or he would have a lien applied on the properties I had worked on. They got the money to me within a day after 4 weeks of ignoring me.

hey
 

Hey I have some HA friends in PG they would love to collect for you
go to the labour board If you do that he can get in to exterme trouble as he is doing this kinda stuff also report him to revenue Canada there is not really much a guy can do as it is a very small job but you can put a stop to his tactics Good Luck don't get your self in to to much trouble collecting if you know what i mean
+1 legal threats work wonders

Wife is telling me to tell you to look into small claims. Google bc small claims and you get the government website with all the forms. Doesnt cost anything because you represent yourself. I guess that is pretty much "legal threats" but if you serve him he might pay instead of going to court.

As a business owner I can tell you that if there is nothing in writing like a subcontractors agreement there is nothing that you can do other then small claims court but then again it is your word against his. And to make matter's worse you have to be able to prove that he hired you to do the work verbal agreement's mean nothing in court and to any labor standards board.

wouldnt he be able to use the ppl at the place he did the work as witnesses that he worked there and in fact did the work?

This seems to be a very common practice among landscapers. I was also stiffed by a landscaper when I was going to University. Only time I've ever been ripped off for work I've done.

You could go undo the work you did :) but don't get caught.....

Ohhh...

Yeah I knew of a guy who did just that once. And we were installing irrigation systems so the payback made a massive mess.

Of course...you tracked him down online. Nothing says he couldn't do the same and see this here.

Yeah some landscapers I met their landscape business was a front for another type of horticultural business so make sure you know who you are trying to collect from.

what i meant was why cant (whatcanyedo) use the ppl he did the work for as proof that he did the work that he isnt getting paid for doing. it will make the contractor look bad. someone had to see him doing the work.

Definitely true.

I would try the lien approach though... just google 'alberta lien's' for info on it. Just understand what it is and have an idea of how you can do it... so you know what to use to make the threat. Then you can avoid the court altogether.

The idea behind it is... there is a certain cost associated with owernership of the property... part of that ownership cost accounts for services used to build/maintain the property... if (in my case for example) part of the property's development required payment of people to landscape and plant/sod etc..., then that is part of the cost of the house. If that cost is unpaid by the contractor then it is not accounted for by the buyer... I dont know exactly how it works, but basically a lien is the money still owed by the buyer (in my base this was the company hawthorne homes who owned the properties the work was on). Its similar to cars with unpaid loans who have been sold through several buyers... the lien goes with the car and whoever is the owner at any time is technically responsible for payment of such lien.

Hope that helps,

Chris

*Just the threat of something like that will light a fire under their seat... if they understand anything about it (or in some cases if they dont understand it they just get scared of legal terms they are unfamiliar with).

I had to sue a contractor who stiffed me on a summer job during university. I didn't have a written contract either. Small claims process is pretty easy.

Contact the homeowners and any other workers at the site and tell them that you will be starting small claims proceedings and intend to call them as witnesses. They will be served with documents and be required to appear.

It is a hassle for them to go through this process so ask them to call the contractor to put some pressure on to pay you before you have to proceed.

If you do have to go to court prepare well and you should win.

To bad i have been delayed Russell, I'd come give you a hand in some "Legal" pressure. If your still have this issue unresloved by the time i make it up there, we'll talk. Pressence speaks loudly. :wink:

Thanks for all of the ideas. This gives me something better to start with. Ironically he was a landscaper too. He hired to to take down and re-build a fence, shovel some rock and put together a plastic garden shed. I'll see if I can track down the other two guys I worked with but that might be hard. The home owner and neighbor saw plenty of me so I should be able to get some kind of signed proof from them.

I'd opt for the lien approach first. I would report him to Labour relations no matter what method you choose and what the outcome. They need to be aware of this type of employer so they can have any chnace of protecting future employees. I'd bet it's not the first time nor will it be the last time he pulls this crap.

Depending on your nature, going with the lien option should work...or simply show up/track him down with the expectation you will be paid (or even) once done.

$400+/- may be quite a bit to you, however it is not much to a company or many older people. If the money is not available, consider holding on to work-related materials of comparable value until the cash becomes available. He does not expect to see you again if he is like this...good luck.

get in touch with the labor board they will meadate and can impose fines on the guy.

Bill

Go over and extract $405 worth of blood from him. ;) :twised:

I've had to use the legal threat method before and it works wonders. Not only will they take s*** from the land owners if you file for a lien but they take additional heat as they, I am assuming, are putting this through as under-the-table work'; which means they haven't done the taxes for it, paid WCB dues, insurances, etc (my best friend runs a landscaping business so I know how "fly-by-night" they really are). He probably is too poor to pay you but that doesn't make it right to not pay you. Put the squeeze on him and you'd be surprised where money can come from.

If threats fail, small claims is a great option and is really easy, just make sure you have all your ducks in a row before pulling the trigger on that one (talk to the owners, neighbours and so on).

Small claims court AND the labour board would be my vote. If you know anyone in the legal profession.. get them to write a really nasty letter on their letterhead.

Just keep in mind that $400 is NOT worth getting into any kind of legal trouble over... period. It sucks to write it off but in the grand scheme of things it's pretty small potatoes

As you have no written contract, I do believe it would be hard to put a lien on anything, especially for a few hundred bucks.

Personally as a small business owner, you can do 2 things

1.) go to small claims court

2.) decide to write if off, if you get it great, but if not, oh well... Personally you have to decide how much time is it worth to pursue, or just forget it and move on to the next project.

I guess you can say, live and learn, all us self employed have had this happen to us.

I don't start any work without a signed contract and without 50% deposit. I find if the potential customer complains, then maybe they won't pay anyways.

Good luck!

I've considered just letting this slide. $405 isn't A LOT of money for me, this is more about principals and the fact that I don't like to be ripped off. If I was more confrontational I'd just knock on doors until I found him... but I'd prefer to do this the proper way.

I've spoken with the home owner where we did the work and she has been helping me out. She says she paid him $600 so that he could at least pay his workers (me and two other guys). According to at least one of the other guys I worked with he hasn't been paid anything as well.

I tried City Hall today and was told that they have no record of a Benjamin Joe having a business license / general contractors license.

let me have a good pic at your frags and ill take care of this for you! Seriously.

heres a freebie --- its 2328 quince. dont say i never did nothing for ya!

What can ye do ? -indeed !

The reality is that you have limited practical options. As others have suggested, the *threat* of something legal (that may or may no be practical given the time it would take and the amount involved) is probably your best approach. Be sure to work the angle that you know he's working illegally (no business licesnce etc.) and it's unlikely he's got WCB and the like. These can all cause him SERIOUS issues and fines that the province WILL extract from him !

If you sound convincing and appear to know what you're talking about AND he's not well versed in this sort of thing, then he may roll over and pay you to avoid legal problems. In the end though, if he calls your bluff, I'd think that for the dollar amount, it's not worth your time to pursue -legally. If you're half as good a carpenter as you are aquarist, you can make more money in half the time it takes to chase this douche.

Frankly, if it came to that, I'd be looking to extract a pound of flesh in some form or another.

The moral of this is, unfortunately, that the days of handshake deals are largely gone. Some sort of written agreement would go a long way right now -but then, it'd only be really useful in court and you really want to avoid that hassle.

Best of luck.

I'm kind of a sadistic person so I'd like to see him suffer a bit. Reporting him to WCB, Revenue Canada and anyone else who will shut him down would probably be payment enough for me.

2328 Quince? Is that really his address? I've been googling every possible combination of his name and other key words trying to get his mailing address myself... I'll drive by and see for myself if you're right.

heres more
 

Call city hall and report him there also operating a home based buisness with out a license is a good one .. Get a friend that can talk really good have him call from a blocked number telling him that this is Insert a good lawyer firm representing your name if you have not have recieved payment by the end of the week we will be forced to start legal proccedings also the better buisness bureau ,prince george chamber of comerrence Ya im a ass to I collected 76,000 from ideration energy that way The cheque was couriered overnight to me ..... make his life a misarble hell you will get paid bailiffs are a good one to but they take 30% north central bailiffs are in pg

Totally illegal...
 

Well, what this employer is done is obviously totally illegal so I would put in a complaint to the Employment Standards Branch. I would also suggest looking into, and joining, a group called the Employee Action & Rights Network (www.earnbc.ca) which exists to educate people on their rights and help people deal with bad bosses like this one!

Verbal contracts hold water in small claims court.

It would be your word against his however I bet the judge would tend to side with you. Why would you do 27 hours of work for somebody, and why would he let you do it, if there was never an agreement?

I'm trying the Employment Standards system at the moment http://www.labour.gov.bc.ca/esb/self-help/start.htm

The other things I've done I did anonymously so I wont repeat them here.

As others have already mentioned Small Claims Court probably wouldn't be worth it because of their fees for such a small amount.

I agree small claims likely won't work. If he's that kind of person he's been sued before and likely knows the system. Work with the labour board and I'd be calling Revenue Canada. As well I'd be contacting the owners of the properties you worked on as they have a responsibility to make sure the subcontractors are paid. (at least limited responsibility) They will pressure him. Basically do every thing you can to make his life a living hell. I'd start showing up at his house and asking his wife for the money too. If you know the street it can't be that hard to find which house. Do a search on Canada411. Good luck. If you don't get your money at least you'll make him pay in other ways.

Chances are that he wasn't paying into unemployment or compensation for you and will most likely do the same with the next person he rips off.

Maybe let these two departments know as well.