Thinking of going fauna
 

So I am toying with the idea of going to the fauna marin ultra lithe system in the new year.
I have a 175g bowfront with approx 200g total water volume, mostly sps that are doing wonderfully well with good colour and fantastic growth.
The problem is the algae which is also doing wonderfully well with good colour and fantastic growth.
I test for alk only and that every 3 months or so, water changes are approx 60g at a time and infrequent.
What would I need to do, what would I need to buy to start the process and would I be better off just leaving things alone...Oh and did I mention I'm lazy? :redface:

recent pics
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...nov0709005.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...nov0709004.jpg

I should also mention I run a couple of cups of carbon passively and do not use phosphate removers

Hi Marie
Leave it alone...
Having said that.
Make sure your Nitrates are down
Make sure you have your Phosphates under control...use Phophate remover
Make sure you run Carbon and due at least 10% water changes a week using ro/di water
Salt make sure it has high potassium levels....some salts are not compatible with Ultra

Then we'll talk more

Thanks Fencer
I guess my biggest question is what happens to the tank if I decide to quit after a few months? Is it similar to Zeo in that tanks can crash if not done right or if its discontinued for some reason?
I wouldn't be doing this for my corals, I have no complaints there, the colours are bright and if the polyps extended any further they would no longer be attached to the coral...and all this with a serious case of red bugs.
I have algae of every make and model though and sometimes I do feel like the "dirty bubba" of fish tank world :razz: it would be nice to get rid of them.

I guess if I was more diligent about water changes and lowering phosphates, it would solve the algae problem and I wouldn't need ultra lithe :lol:

Yes you have to slowly get off of Ultra like Zeo. I think you should do the easier stuff first...water change etc

When I dabbled in Zeo with my old 75g the folks over at the zeovit.com forum advised me that older tanks don't always react well to switching to a ULNS system and that one should ease themselves into it slower. Can't remember what all the potential symptoms were of shock but the one thing I do remember is I got a wicked and persistent cyano bloom a few weeks in. I ended up running a red slime remover treatment to get rid of it.

I don't really recall that it got rid of any nuisance algaes. I know for sure it did not starve out the stupid caulerpa problem that particular tank did have.

Hi Marie! I agree with fencer. I suck at doing water changes too because I am also lazy. :o I have set up myself a system where water changes are super easy though, and I find I do a lot more water changes. I used to do maybe 6 water changes a year before, now I'm up to weekly!! :eek: If you make it easy for yourself you will be more likely to do it.

You could use some of the additives without using all the nutrient lowering products. You can gradually ease into using some of the bacteria encouraging products as time goes on, and see the reaction of that. I am familiar with Zeo, so I would have to suggest these products: Sponge Power, Xtra, Amino Acid High Concentration (for SPS), and Coral Vitalizer. These four you should have no issues using on your established tank, except the latter of which I find I have to use very sparingly or I will get diatoms and cyano. You could also put Coral Snow to use which I have found is a great combatant of algae especially if used with Bak. However, on an established tank I would be careful using both of those, but especially the Bak.

As far as Zeo goes...don't follow the directions on the bottles. If it says use 1 drop per 25 gallons daily use 1 drop per 25 gallons 3x per week or even less. You should notice a different with a small amount. However, I do find that with Zeo you need to be tedious about it (I assume FM is the same way). Either do it, or don't - there is no halfway. If you do it halfway (use the additives irregularly) you will cause yourself more grief than good imo.

Hi

Sorry for late coming into this, trying to take weekends of now.

As everyone has said for now it is important to get your basic maintenance regime in place.

10% water changes a week
PO4 and nitrate tests.

If your PO4 is high then using FM Ultra power phos to bring this down. This is powerful suff and does not leach the PO4 back into the system it remains bound, you also dont have to use much of it and the absorbant rate on tests is fast. (but thats another subject we will be doing this review in the new year)

correct PO4 test proceedure

heat sample of water to 80oC
Allow to cool for 5 minutes
Take test in normal way

By doing this you are unbinding the PO4 trapped in the water molecules and obtaining a correct reading.

After this as Myka says you can use some nutrient lowering products, a good start would be

Ultra Bio
Ultra Bak

These as Mike proved in his tests rids he system of any nutrients in a stable and structured manner. But again as Myka points out you must keep up with this.

IF you want to go down the Ultra lith route, in some parts it is not too different from Zeo but you will not get the crash situations if you come right off of it, as the forumla is a lot milder in nature. However we do still recommend a weaning process off of it as no tank should experience sudden changes.

With Fauna Marin Lith systems the independant reports are you get a more gentle change to the tank and more natural colours, it is reported to eb more user freindly.

So what would you need

the very least is the following

Ultra Lith rock
Ultra Bio -(the bacteria)
Ultra Bak (the bacterial food)
Ultra Min-S (the amino acids)

This is the basic 4 for start up.

Again - If you chose this route, it would mean for the first 6 weeks some daliy tasks of adding drops of the above mentioned products. After this period things settle down, and after the first 3 months you will have a stable system.

Remember also, we offer direct and outstanding support every step of the way to anyone that starts and continue to use Ultra Lith you are not left wondering what you should be doing.

Hi Myka, you say I can use these 4 zeo products safely ( Sponge Power, Xtra, Amino Acid High Concentration (for SPS), and Coral Vitalizer.) but what exactly would they do for my aquarium? I'm not looking for things I can add to my tank just because.

Specifically I'm looking for the easy way to control numerous species of macroalgae. The algae isn't particularily out of control (except maybe the coralline algae) just unsightly when guests come over

Hi Marie,

This being the Fauna Marin product forum we can only really talk about FM products here.

To control Algea we first need to know the route cause before suggesting any Fauna marin product (that goes for any product as well really)

If you can get back to us with your "true" PO4 results and nitrate results, we can then establish a maintenance plan for you.

Using FM products you would only need two

Ultra Bio
Ultra Bak

This is the uilding blcoks of low nutrient dosing and will keep you nutrients in check

Hi aqua digital,
So the ultra bak is the bacteria food and the bio is the bacteria, what do the amino acids do for the tank...

Hiya

Ultra Bio is a very powerful blend of bacterias that are designed specifically for consuming nutrients.

Ultra bak is the foods source, call it the energy drink for the Bio.

Min-S (amino acid supplement) is used to replace the negative nutrients with the exact requirments your system and corals require without causing algal issues

I would suggest adding a small amount of Min-S after you have your nutrients down other wise the corals can go pale due to lack of nutrients.

ULNS is a balancing act, once you found the balance it is very easy to maintain.

One piece of advise given above older tanks do not react well to ULNS due to the high build up of trapped nurtrients in sand and rock.

I would suggest testing your nutrient levels and then getting back to me for further advise.

At this time i do not receommend full Lith dosing, but I do recommend a structured maintenance program that could or may include the use of bak bio and some min-s.

Regards
Michael

Ultra Bio

UltraBio is a mix of highly active bacteria, specifically formulated for the Ultralith system. This bacteria mix will prevent a monoculture in the filter and promotes the rapid processing of nutrients in the filter.
Standard dosing:

Shake well before use.

When starting to use UltraBio or after an exchange of the UltraLith filter medium add 1 drop per 100 liter/26gal every day for 2 weeks. After this initial phase, add 1 drop per 100 Liter/26gal. every three days, until the next exchange of the Ultralith filter medium. Please add the UltraBio either directly into the tank or into the intake of the Zeolite Filter.

It is advisable to turn off the skimmer for 2 to 3 hours after the addition of UltraBio.

UltraBio is a mix of several nitrifying and denitrifying bacterial populations that were carefully selected for their ability to convert ammonia to nitrite, nitrite to nitrate and nitrate to nitrogen gas. Please add UltraBio at the beginning of using the Ultralith system and after an exchange of Ultralith.

Our bacteria mix is highly concentrated. You can actually see the bacteria with the naked eye as aggregates drifting in the solution. Please shake the bottle slightly before each use.

UltraBio contains the marine nitrifying and denitrifying bacterial strains „Nitrosomas sp. Nitrobacter sp. Nitrospira sp. Paracoccus sp. Pseudomonas sp. and is highly concentrated

ADVICE :

In older tanks with high nutrient concentrations please reduce the phosphate concentration with Ultraphos down to levels around around 0,1 mg/l – 0,05 mg/l before using UltraBak. After the phosphate reduction, dose UltraBio as recommended above.

UltraBio contains the marine nitrifying and denitrifying bacterial strains „Nitrosomas sp. Nitrobacter sp. Nitrospira sp. Paracoccus sp. Pseudomonas sp. and is highly concentrated.

ATTENTION: Our bacteria mix is highly concentrated and you can actually see the bacteria as aggregates drifting in the solution. Through the high concentration of the bacterial cells in the solution, a contamination with foreign or a decay of the product can effectively be ruled out and makes preservation like storage in a Nitrogen atmosphere unnecessary. The solution has a shelf life of at least 9 months and does not require refridgeration. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++
FAUNA MARIN BACTERIA SYSTEM for nutrient reduction in Reef tanks


UltraBio can also be used for nutrient reduction without the use of Zeolites or other adsorbers. If you want to use UltraBio without Ultralith, you have to use UltraBio in combination with Biofood as a food source for the bacteria.

Dosing :
Shake well before use

1 drop each of UltraBio and 3 drops of Biofood per day per 100 L/26gal, directly into the aquarium. Keep this dose until Nitrate and Phosphate levels have dropped significantly. After you have reached the desired water parameters, decrease the dose by 50%.

Cyanobacteria:

The combination of UltraBio and UltraLife are a very effective treatment against cyanobacteria in reef tanks. Cyanobacteria form red films or carpets which can cover the entire decoration. They are good indicators for a misbalance between nutrients. An addition of UltraBio and Ultralife will reactivate the growth of a healthy and diverse bacterial population by balancing out the nutrients.

Dosing:

Different products have to be mixed before dosing. The daily dose per 100 L of tank volume is 2 drops of UltraBio, half a tablespoon of UltraLife and 2 drops of UltraBio. Mix all the ingredients together and add them into the intake of a pump or any other place with high flow.

Maintain this treatment until the Cyanobacteria are clearly reduced. This may take several days to weeks, so please be patient. In most cases the treatment works in less than one week

Ultra Min-S

Ultramin S is a nutrient solution and food additive, specially developed for filter feeders, corals and clams. Due to its special formula it is taken up extremely fast. Polyps will expand much further and the protective mucus membrane of the corals will be strengthened. Greatly aides the buildup of coral tissue, nutrients will be transported into the coral/clam much more efficiently. The corals will expand and take up more particulate food (UltraMin F), the natural coloration will be enhanced.
UltraMin S contains all all Amino acids, Vitamins, and over 70 trace elements.
Add 3-5 ml per 1000 L (250 gal) daily, depending on nutrient concentrations in the aquarium.
For husbandry of Sponges and non-photosynthetic corals UltraMin S is an essential product in combination with UltraMin F.
UltraMin S is available in 100 ml/ 250 ml/ 500 ml/ 1000 ml.

Contents:
Water
Glucose Monohydrate
Magnesium Sulfate
Potassium Chloride
Ethylene Acetate
Sodium Acetate
L-Arginin Hydrochloride
L-Histidin Hydrochloride
Taurine
L-Threonine
DL-Tryptophane
Glycine
DL-Valine
Thiamin Chloride 100 mg
Nicotinamide 1500 mg
Riboflavine 40 mg
Dexpanthenole
Pridoxine Hydrochloride 100 mg
Cyanococobalamine
Sodium Methyl-4-Hydroxybenzoate
More than 70 trace elements

Ultra Bak

UltraBak is a nutrient solution for bacteria commonly found in a marine aquarium. After addition of UltraBak bacteria will grow rapidly and thereby will convert unwanted nutrients like nitrite, nitrate and phosphate into biomass. The bacteria will either be skimmed off or taken up by corals and filter feeders, thereby providing an additional source of natural food. Most corals can also directly utilize UltraBak as an energy source.
Growth rates of denitrifiying bacteria are enhanced, making life rock and especially Zeolite filters even more effective in breaking down and removing unwanted nitrogen compounds. UltraBak reduces nitrite, nitrate, and phosphate; combined with Ultralith and UltraminS it provides a safe and easy method for maintaining extremely nutrient depleted water and amazing colours in a reef tank.

UltraBak is suitable for aquaria with of without Zeolite filtration

Dosing:

Daily 2 - 5 ml per 1000 L / 250 gal. depending on nutrient concentration and lifestock density. Please ask for advice!
Please do all changed in the aquarium slowly and carefully!

In older tanks with high nutrient concentrations please reduce the phosphate concentrations with Ultraphos before using UltraBak. Reduce the dose of UltraBak by 75 % and increase the dose every two weeks by 10 %. Monitor your water parameters very carefully. In case there are slimey films on the glass and/or the rocks, the dose is too high.

Contents:
Water, Calcium chloride, Magnesium sulfate, Potassium chloride, Ethylene acetate, Ethanol, Peptone, Tryptone, Histidine hydrochloride, D-Phenylalanine, L-Threonine, DL-Tryptonphane, DL-Valine, Thiamine chloride, Nicotinamide, Ribiflavine, Pridoxine hydrochloride, Cyanococobalamine, Sodiummethyl-4-hydroxybezoate, organic acids, trace elements.

This Amino Acid Vitamin solution was formulated for the recovery of stressed and weakened animals after import or disease. Due to its special formula it is taken up extremely fast. The build up of the mucus membrane is enhanced and through special care and nutrition formula the animals will be strengthened. Ultramin is specially suited for short-time baths or as constant supply into the quarantine or main tank as well as a nutritional supplement in fish food.
We are happy to advice you about this product.

Contents:

Water, Glucose monohydrate, Calcium chloride, Magnesium sulfate, Potassium chloride, Sodium acetate, L-Arginine chloride, Histidine hydrochloride, D-Phenylalanine, L-Threonine, DL-Tryptophane, DL-Valine, Thiamine chloride 100ml/L, Nicotinamide 1500 mg/L, Riboflavine 40 mg/L, Dexpanthenol,

Pridoxin hydrochloride 100 mg, Cyanococobalamin,

Natriummethyl4hydroxybenzoate, Phenole, and others.

Also I'll apologize in advance in case I come across as "difficult and negative" . I say I'm lazy but really I have slightly different thoughts on reef tanks then a lot of others.
I believe the ocean reefs are finely balanced systems with algae and bacteria playing equal roles. For my tank I've always strived for a balance between the two and sponges, other filter feeders, pods and worms are as important to me as the fish and corals.
I'm researching ultra lithe to find out if it will help me maintain that balance. I don't want a "low nutrient" system... I want a healthy one and I don't think they are the same thing

The concept is without debate, we all want to provide what is natural. (sales hat on sorry - This is why i distribute FM becuase they only use natural elements where possible)

Sales hat off again - The only issue you will have is that our tanks do not have billions of gallons of fresh filtered sea water passing through them daily removing all negative nutrients, we have a captive environment where the bad guys will lurk and linger and build up over time in your system and this is where they then become an issue to remove when things get out of control.

In your case, absolutley do not go down the full nutrient route.

BUT

I would get your PO4 in check and nitrates (please report back) and then if required address these naturally with the bacterial elements bak and bio

After this as you are interested in filter feeders it would be good to look into Ultra Sea Fan and ultra min-S in very small doses to bring out all the micro life you wish to maintain.

Lets start at the beginning though, and show us your readings as advised to take above using PO4 heat test especially.

I will then endeavour to find the most natural solution for your system

In your second post you wrote
Is this a misprint?
and what is ultralife

FM products can be used in conjunction with other FM products for different uses.

Dosing Bio with Ultra Life is a way of reducing nutrients and cyno outbreaks naturally.

Ultra life is a multi purpose clay binding agent, its pupose in the main is to bind the water bound nutrients for them to be skimmed out.

I have not gone down this route of explanation as yet as to not confuse you with too many products before we know what the issues (if any) are with your system

Also dec is an insanely busy time for me as a dog groomer so nothing will happen until the new year. I'm researching now so I know what to spend all my xmas gift certificates on :razz:

UNSIGHTLY!!! you have got to be kidding, your tank is amazing. If you are wanting to try something I do recommend the Ultralith line, I recieved a demo of Ultra Bio and the food source (powder in a bottle with no label, perhaps the Fauna folk could identify what it is) I used it on the 90 corner tank and it cleared up my nuisance algae as well as a real bad case of cyano.

Hey Dave do you still have your fancy water tester thing? Would it give me an accurate nitrate, phosphate reading?

That reminds me I need a hair cut :mrgreen:

Take your time, I am happy to keep providing advise and answer questions when required

(missing label = sample bottle from large vat of product ;) ) This was the Ultra Life I speak of above

Best wishes
Michael

See, Aqua digital is so quick they posted the answer while I was still typing, I was sent a sample of the Bio and the Ultralife and it solved the problems in the corner tank.

:mrgreen:

Bio and ultra life if used as directed and for the correct period of time is a fantastic 100% natural way of ridding systems of algal issues providing there is no continued underlying cause.

Works well for - outbreaks due to holiday over feeding, reduced water change schedules, accidental nutrient over dosing, cyano outbreaks in a normally healthy system

Does not work so well for established high nutrient issues in established old tanks where the nutrients have become bound in tanks structures. In this case we recommend regular maintenance with bak and bio.

That would certainly describe my tank although phosphates haven't affected the corals yet, it never hurts to be proactive :mrgreen:

;)

Once we establish your Po4 levels I think if they are high and can be got under check then your coral colour and growth will be amazing, its great now and a tank anyone would be proud of, but as you say best to be proactive.

Better coral growth would be a bad thing....seriously

sounds like your system is very well balanced then and if anything ust needs some fine tuning.

But until i know the test results dont do anything other than what you are doing now ;)

Yes I still have that fancy thing, give me a ring and I can stop over and give you a baseline.

Dave replied to your email ;)

PO4 test - I really need a heat test to determine anything.

Thanks, I do the heated sample and readings are taken using Medusa colorometer, as accurate as we can get around here.

It is well balanced but I don't use test kits to tell me how the tank is doing, I go by feel and I have a feeling things are going to be reaching critical mass at some point in the near future

And Dave I will give you a ring sometime today :biggrin:

By critical mass you mean coral colonies that are too heavy to lift right?:lol:

Do you still have the old pump from your old calcium reactor? I just broke a part on mine cleaning it:mmph:

I wish I bought one of those colorimeters........ $300 was a bargain compared to the $1000+ Hach or Lamotte units.

To bad they don't make them anymore and Elos decided not to bring their unit to market ($500 US).

Cheers,
Vic

Dave, your welcome to the pump but I don't know what good it will do you.

The motor quit on me and I don't think it was because the impellor seized up but when I put it back together again I broke the ceramic shaft in pieces

Sponge Power is my single most favourite Zeo additive. It feeds the filter feeders - sponges, tunicates, clams, etc. I think it was the last kicker for my plague of Valonia! The other three are actually coral foods, and would improve coral colors and growth (not that you need that!), but would do little to battle any algae.

I have found Coral Snow and Bak (which sounds to be the Zeo version of FM's Life and Bac) used together to be a great combatant against pretty much any algae, but if you try that, try it very cautiously. I would start at 1/4 dosing increasing to full dose at 4-6 weeks. Due to my recent episode with my reef, I treat Zeo with much more caution/respect.

However, I don't think a few additives will help your algae issue. I think you would need to employ the "basic 4" as AquaDigital suggested (be it Zeo or FM, they both have a basic 4). Again, since your system is so well established I would use extreme caution - even moreso if you have any LPS of softies in the tank. These products are far from snake oils - they do what they are supposed to, and VERY well!

Watch your clams closely too!

I have 3 (soon to be 4) angels in the tank, another name for clam is "dinner" ...same goes for any lps/sps and some softies :lol:

Lol!!!