Electricity help please?
 

I want to build an ATO with 2 float switches, one for backup if the other fails, and a solid state relay. Unfortunately I'm electrically "disinclined" have been mucking with this thing for a while now and I cannot seem to get more than one switch to work. Both work fine without the relay, but I want to protect the switches by using the relay.

Can someone please post a picture of this with the wires connected correctly?

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/3701/damnrelay.jpg

OK, Your and mine paint skills need work, But here it is.

The Hot form the plug, goes through the switches, then to the coil side of the relay. The other side of the relay coil goes to the neutral. The Hot also goes to one of the relay contacts, the pump from the other. My paint skills suk, But I can do a Autocad of it tomorrow maybe. To late tonight

If I do it this way will the plug on the extension cord still work?

Yes, just plug it in and it will work. The float switches go to let power to the relay coil, and the relay contact acts like a switch to turn the pump on.

This is a not a good way to do this.

First you better make sure your float switches are rated for 110vac, the little cheap ones usually aren't.

Second, if your switches aren't sealed at the top you may want to think about this a bit, get them wet or submerged and you are going to electrify the tank.

It would be a far better idea to use a 12vdc circuit for the switches and use that to flip 110vac on the relay.

Ya, I forgot to add that. IF the switches are rated for 110v then fine. If not, then NO.

there was a good active diagram on RC a few months back showing the water level changing and switch action, put a post up asking for it. Got one link, not the one I was looking for but gives an idea. Follow from here,

I don't have a 12v dealie yet. I have a 9v kicking around. Would that work? The wiring I tried didn't work. For now if I can just get it to work properly then I can put in the adapter thingie later, before I use it. Little more help? :redface:

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/9067/1024405.jpg
http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/1788/1024406.jpg

well if you haven't damaged your relay, the 9v will work.

follow the diagram in the link I put up but the 9V supply in series with the switches on the control. Your extension cord on the output, just imagine the the relays output as a switch on one wire (hot, on a polarized plug, the wire that connects to the narrow blade) of the extension cord.

If you ever plugged it in with the way you have it wired in the picture you probably need a new relay.

I'm trying to find a way to say this without being a prick... I don't really think that you're ready to put this together right now, you need to go and learn a little bit about how this stuff works, you don't have the right relay for what you are trying to do. It's going to fail if you connect 110v to that control side and it might fail ugly. Like gloriously aflame ugly.

Well that sucks...... Yeah, the switches fried, but the relay still seems to work..if the led on it is any indicator anyway. Sooo I need new switches. Thanks for trying to help. Can anyone link me to the correct pieces for putting together this project so I don't screw it up a second time by any chance? If I can find all the right parts I will just get someone else to put the bloody thing together.:frusty:

For what you're trying to do, I believe you're going to need a different relay, one with more switching ability on the output side. The one you have only switches one circuit and you'll need more than that. I don't have a diagram handy at the moment but the link Mark provided is a good start and clearly shows the additional contact options of the more complex relay. You want a low voltage supply to run the float switch side of the circuit which in turn allows the relay to switch the 110 VAC circuit to run the pump or whatever you're using to top off your system. The control side of your current relay is low voltage at 3-32 VDC, you need to make sure the output or switched part is rated for 110 or higher VAC.

Here's a very good circuit, with latching feature to cut down on relay chatter. Provides options for controlling either a powerhead or solenoid valve. All the stuff in contact with the water is on low voltage, much safer that way. As you can see the relay has NO and NC contacts for switching.

http://hlj1yw.blu.livefilestore.com/...at_Circuit.jpg

Why do you want a relay so bad when you said it works with out it any way?
*Never mind I just re-read and you need the right equipment the relay was wrong or you need 120v float switches.

I'm a total electronics noob, so I think maybe it would be better (and safer) if I just bought one pre-made. Thank you everyone for your help, I really appreciate it. Had I not been a dummy and fried the switches (lol :lol:) I would have kept at it. Maybe someone else can use that great diagram though. (I don't even understand it , haha!)

Good idea, here's another circuit, perhaps a little easier to understand with the animation.

http://hlj1yw.blu.livefilestore.com/...tchcircuit.gif

Mike, that's the one I was asking for on RC.

Yep, snagged it from the BeanAnimal dude's post.

Have you considered a strictly mechanical set up for top up? If you have room for an elevated container above your sump, a simple mechanical float valve will do the trick without all the electrical hassle..... and it will work even during a power outage. I'm thinking of going that way myself when I set up my next tank with basement sump. Keep it simple with a gravity feed, only one component really to worry about failing, whereas the electrical ATO has all kinds of potential failure modes.

How does that work? What would I need? What does it look like set up?

If you have a humidifier attached to the ducting on your furnace (usually forced air gas furnaces), you'll see what I mean by a mechanical float switch. The line feeding this type of humidifier is plumbed right into your cold water supply, usually with a small valve fitting which pierces the pipe. Whenever the water level in the humidifier tray drops, the mechanical float valves opens sufficiently to allow the cold water supply to refill the tray. They usually use quarter inch plastic pipe similar to that used on RODI systems.

Most RO/DI unit vendors also sell mechanical float switches specifically made for that application. I don't have any photos or diagrams handy, but it's simply a matter of having a container with your top off water above the sump. This will have a line plumbed to the bottom of it using a bulkhead fitting or uniseal or even some sort of shut off valve. The line in turn is run down to the sump and to the mechanical float switch which is attached to the sump at the level you want it topped up to. Open the valve at the bottom of the top off container et voila, gravity takes over and the mechanical float shuts down the flow when the desired level is reached.

my ATO, furnace humidifier float valve in sump. From HD about $10, 3 years plus and totally no problems.


http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h316/das75/float.jpg

So I just buy the float valve, connect it to the hose, run the hose to a hole in a container of water higher than the sump and that would do it?

You got it, almost too good to be true no?

Yeah :lol: Thanks!