Maybe quitting Zeovit
 

Zeovit has been disappointing to me thus far. I get THE worst film algae on the glass and for the first time in my tank history, I'm constantly battling hair algae and cyano in certain areas of my tank, and bubble algae/valonia continues to grow. This AFTER starting Zeo.

It requires a fair amount of diligence, I've found, and I'm growing weary of the effort that returns no positive results.

I've been researching other carbon-based nutrient-low systems and am intrigued by this. I understand the risks, but it looks much less involved, yet effective.

What do you all think?

I quit using it about 6 weeks ago and my algae problems cleared up. I was finding it way too complex

Interesting. So frustrating :bad-word:

hey Drew i find that all the reading that i have been doing about ZEO is crazy alot of stuff to do for the pleasure of sitting there and watching it grow.. It's just alot of money to perfect you hobby.. may be im crazy or not dont get me wrong all all zeo users are getting the gains that they should. the start up is crazy unless you can DIY with some of the stuff.lke the reactor, all the supplements that you have to buy. but then you look at some people that say that their algae problem clears up, so does it work or does it not......

i would try the polyplabs reef-resh system before dosing sugar or vodka in a tank i cared about.

I used the Polyplabs for about 18 months and quit it for the same reasons. It worked at first then the tank became a film algae cesspool. Its much better now without.

ditto, almost the exact same experience.

Tank got worse when I quit it, but after a few months is better.

Very interesting indeed. Well, I'm going to do it. I'm tired of putting in all this effort for a tank that looks like a petri dish.

I've taken before pics and will hopefully track any progress (hopefully progress).

It is very easy with Zeo to over dose any of the basic four suppliments, the algae could be the result of the start2, zeofood7, or AAHC. Everyones tank is differant and you can't just go by what the label on the bottle says for dosing instructions. You may also have a latent PO4 build up in the tank sand, rock etc, that is being pulled out by the zeo system. Sometimes results take some time to be achieved, however, given some time and tweaking of the suppliments the tank will become nutrient poor using the zeovit method.

I found I was getting some hair algae until I started cycling th zeo reactor 3 hours on 3 hours off. Give it some time and tweek your dosing amounts and it will get better.

:biggrin:

That's the thing, I'm dosing VERY low amounts, well below the recommended amounts. And I've always cycled my reactor on/off in 3 hour intervals!

This touches on why I stopped dosing. It is too much work and a bit of a black art to do it right.

The simplicity of fish as a nutrient supply, skimming, and dosing only consumed elements (Calcuim and Alkalinity) seems to be providing better results for me.

I ran reef tanks for 10 years before I ever started Zeovit, and there were times those tanks didn't look too bad. :lol: I'm still only about a half believer in the zeo.

I'm really not a fan of daily manual dosings. It's not a big deal for me but I hate asking people to do it when I have to go away for whatever - if it's too complicated a process, they'll never tanksit again. And never mind the "oh and pump this handle 15 times in the morning, and again 15 times in the evening, if you would, please and thank you."

I had the cyano thing too. I did get a marginal improvement after I dosed red slime remover. No more cyano and no signs of it reappearing. However, the film algae on the glass is out of control. Although it's weird, it must be the sand because the 40g carpet tank (same sump == same water) does not have a film buildup on it at all - I clean it about once every 6 weeks or so. But the 75g main display - needs the glass cleaned on a daily basis. If I let it go beyond 2 days, the magfloat doesn't clean it anymore - I have to use a razor blade at that point.

I think the difference though is that the 40g has a large stomatella population but the 75g has a small population. I'm not sure who's picking them off but I suspect someone probably has a taste for them. At any rate, point being, I'm not so sure my 40g clean glass is really attributable to the zeo.

So basically I just use zeo for the water clarity and as a substitute for GFO. ... Can't really say I ever saw the crayon-box colours come out of my corals that you see on all the zeovit pictures.

This is the back side, 2 days after being scraped clean:
http://x9c.xanga.com/e35c6767c0d3320...b156437925.jpg

This is the front side, after one day:
http://xdb.xanga.com/dccc476b6413120...b156437940.jpg

I went through the same thing with my tank when I started Zeo I was not a happy guy. I stopped dosing for a few weeks I scrubbed out the hair alge and cut my zeo start dose in half. I changed from running carbon to running phosban media and with in days I had the tank I wanted. Been running so smoothly every since and even if I miss a few days of dosing all is well.

HOLY MOTHER OF GOD BATMAN! I have never had anything like that before with my tank and my fish load is pretty heavy, I would be looking at your nutrient load very closely, ie. your RO/DI water, food, dosing amounts. Below is a list I would look into if this was happening to my tank.

1. - Check your make up and top off RO/DI water, it HAS to be ZERO.

2. - Test your PO4 level, if higher than .05 you will have to run GFO or equvilant until lower than .05 otherwise the Zeo method won't work.

3. - Your DKH must be between 6.5 and 8 nothing higher (not sure of the science behind this but it is important! If using Seachem Reef Salt DKH should be at about 9.3.

4. - Check how old your lights are, replace if older than recommended.

5. - Up your water change schedule if you can, I do about 5% or so a week.

6. - reduce your photo period if on for longer than 8 hours (halides)

7. - lower your temp if above 82, the slime algae on the glass likes warm water. My tank runs at about 79-80

8. - Up your Bak dosage slightly, cut your start2 dosage in half and only dose twice per week. Also lower your Zeofood7 and only dose twice per week. Stop dosing AAHC if you are using it.

9. - Change Carbon if more than 30 days old. run slightly more if possible.


Could you please tell me your dosing schedule?

How much Zeolite stones your are running
How much Carbon and wheather you are you using a reactor for the Carbon or running it in a filter sock passivly
You complete dosing schedule and what ZEO elements you are using
The salt you are using
The flow rate through your ZEO reactor
your Zeolite rock exchange schedule

I might be able to help with that crazy algae issue!

Here we go...
 

1. - Check your make up and top off RO/DI water, it HAS to be ZERO.
Strange. I just tested my RO/DI water and it had a TDS of 40. Two weeks ago, it was 2. I'll flush the RO membrane for 30 minutes and test it again.

2. - Test your PO4 level, if higher than .05 you will have to run GFO or equvilant until lower than .05 otherwise the Zeo method won't work.
I don't actually have a PO4 test kit. I know, bad reefer. Maybe it's time.

3. - Your DKH must be between 6.5 and 8 nothing higher (not sure of the science behind this but it is important! If using Seachem Reef Salt DKH should be at about 9.3.
I just tested my water: dKH=6.4, Ca=440, Mg=1220.

4. - Check how old your lights are, replace if older than recommended.
I just replaced 5 of my T5 bulbs a few weeks ago. The other three are less than 2 months old.

5. - Up your water change schedule if you can, I do about 5% or so a week.
I do 10% every week-week and a half.

6. - reduce your photo period if on for longer than 8 hours (halides)
I only run HO T5's (8x39w). Four come on at 10:30am, the other four at 11:00am....then off again at 10:30pm and 11:00pm.

7. - lower your temp if above 82, the slime algae on the glass likes warm water. My tank runs at about 79-80.
Unorthodox, I know, but I don't use a heater in my tank, lol. They make me very nervous, and my apartment is never cold (I have nice floor heating).

8. - Up your Bak dosage slightly, cut your start2 dosage in half and only dose twice per week. Also lower your Zeofood7 and only dose twice per week. Stop dosing AAHC if you are using it.
I'll answer this below...

9. - Change Carbon if more than 30 days old. run slightly more if possible.
I'm using Aqua Connect Silicarbon, changed it after 5 weeks.


Could you please tell me your dosing schedule?

How much Zeolite stones your are running .75L
How much Carbon and wheather you are you using a reactor for the Carbon or running it in a filter sock passivly 3/4 C Aqua Connect Silicarb, run passively in a filter sock.
You complete dosing schedule and what ZEO elements you are using ZEOback = 2 drop twice a week, ZEOfood = 2 drops twice a week, ZEOstart = 0.4 ml daily.
The salt you are using Kent
The flow rate through your ZEO reactor Somewhere between 50-75gph, alternating three hours on, three hours off.
your Zeolite rock exchange schedule I've only exchanged it once, after 4 weeks; kept 15%-ish to seed new Zeolites.

Strange. I just tested my RO/DI water and it had a TDS of 40. Two weeks ago, it was 2. I'll flush the RO membrane for 30 minutes and test it again. This is the most important step you can take to control your problems, flushing the filter is fine but replace the DI canister if you cannot get it to zero, infact you should replace all filters at least once a year.

2. - Test your PO4 level, if higher than .05 you will have to run GFO or equvilant until lower than .05 otherwise the Zeo method won't work.
I don't actually have a PO4 test kit. I know, bad reefer. Maybe it's time.
It is REALLY time to know what this level is at, it must be below .05 but preferably lower. If above run some GFO in a Phosban reactor until it drops.

3. - Your DKH must be between 6.5 and 8 nothing higher (not sure of the science behind this but it is important! If using Seachem Reef Salt DKH should be at about 9.3.
I just tested my water: dKH=6.4, Ca=440, Mg=1220.
This is good but raise your MAG to 1325 or better.

4. - Check how old your lights are, replace if older than recommended.
I just replaced 5 of my T5 bulbs a few weeks ago. The other three are less than 2 months old.
Excellent

5. - Up your water change schedule if you can, I do about 5% or so a week.
I do 10% every week-week and a half.
Excellent! But realize that your new saltwater is using that substandard RO/DI water. Adding fuel to the fire no doubt.

6. - reduce your photo period if on for longer than 8 hours (halides)
I only run HO T5's (8x39w). Four come on at 10:30am, the other four at 11:00am....then off again at 10:30pm and 11:00pm.
Tune your photoperiod down to 8 hrs, have the lights come on at 12:30 and 1:00pm instead. This will make a differance.

7. - lower your temp if above 82, the slime algae on the glass likes warm water. My tank runs at about 79-80.
Unorthodox, I know, but I don't use a heater in my tank, lol. They make me very nervous, and my apartment is never cold (I have nice floor heating).
Hmm, okay. The last this you want is swings in temp, buy yourself a good heater if it drops more than a few degrees by morning. Ebo Jagor/Marineland Stealth...


9. - Change Carbon if more than 30 days old. run slightly more if possible.
I'm using Aqua Connect Silicarbon, changed it after 5 weeks.
Change once every 30 days, use regular high grade Carbon, by using the silicarbon you may be competing with the bacteria for something they may need to metabolize the phosphate or other nutrients in your tank that no doubt attribute to the algae film, hair algae, etc..


Could you please tell me your dosing schedule?

How much Zeolite stones your are running .75L
This is good, change every 6 weekss or so, follow the instructions once changed.

How much Carbon and wheather you are you using a reactor for the Carbon or running it in a filter sock passivly 3/4 C Aqua Connect Silicarb, run passively in a filter sock.
Explained above re; carbon

You complete dosing schedule and what ZEO elements you are using
ZEOback = 2 drop twice a week, ZEOfood = 2 drops twice a week, ZEOstart = 0.4 ml daily.
Try dosing three drops bak 2x per week / zeofood 1 drop 3x per week / zeostart .2ml 2x per week. Stop the Zeostart until the film on glass improves then start again as recommended.

The salt you are using Kent
Okay

The flow rate through your ZEO reactor Somewhere between 50-75gph, alternating three hours on, three hours off.
Up the flow rate to 75-100 GPH keeping the on/off schedule

your Zeolite rock exchange schedule I've only exchanged it once, after 4 weeks; kept 15%-ish to seed new Zeolites.
As above

I really think these things will work for you, I would recommend this before attempting the VsV method.

:mrgreen:
__________________
~Drew

55G Mixed Reef * 15G Sump * Deltec MCE 600 Skimmer * Tek 8x39W HO T5 * Zeovit * Vortech MP40W

Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon. ~S. Ertz

Well, this thread answers my question last month about whether I should consider zeo...

I'll just stick with tried & true.

I say go for the VSV method, and don't forget about yourself and that first V! I am really glad I held off and avoided all the nutrient poor systems. My gut just told me that there had to be some sort of downside to it.

The photos are super helpful, and I'm sorry it didn't work out for you.

Not so fast! This is likely a result of a nutrient problem associated with the RO/DI water among other contibutors.

Zeovit works, but you must commit to doing it exactly as instructed. I have been using the Fauna Marin and now Zeovit with great results.

http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z...kusbmw/026.jpg

The flow rate through your ZEO reactor Somewhere between 50-75gph, alternating three hours on, three hours off.
Up the flow rate to 75-100 GPH keeping the on/off schedule

Remember that the ZEOlite rocks must be covered by water when the flow is off for three hours.

Tom R

Yeah....the rocks in my reactor were always submerged.

Good point, forgot to mention that........:lol:

Ok, I changed my DI resin out and I'm getting a consistent TDS reading of between 0 and 1.

Zeovit isn't a bandaid to smother out other problems. Any probiotic methodology will have strict guidelines that need to be monitored and adhered to.

From the sounds of it, your reactor isn't breaking in properly and you're still stuck in Phase 1.

Drew, try this:

Reduce the flow rate to 50 gph or so. Cut the use of any animo acids and/or auxillary supplements (iodine, iron, etc), stick to the basic four. From those, and as mentioned above, I'd do the following:

ZeoBak and Zeofood 2-3 drops daily for the first week after your exchange, switch to twice a week thereinafter. Make sure you're dosing near the feed pump of the reactor and only when it's on.

Zeofood should be added at .25 mL twice daily, again, near the pump and while it's on.

Since this is within your first rock exchange, hang on. Sometimes, establishing the zeolith filter is a PITA, but once you hit phase 2/3, it's smooth sailing.

HTH

Excellent! this is a great start, try the other suggestions and see what happens.

That in itself is reason enough. I want to enjoy my tank, not spend more tim ein the sump room. RO water in, water changes bi-weekly out, smart feeding, efficient skimming, and I think that's all I need

I had great success with zeovit. If you are not you may want to try running ozone with the Zeovit but only OCCASIONALLY. I found that once I initially brought up the orp in my water from approx 180 to 320 it stayed in that range almost on its own (unless I fed heavy) I think once you remove the excess nutrients and organics from the water(with the ozone and skimmer) you have a much better chance keeping away pesky algae blooms. I had crystal clear water and the colour I had with my corals was awesome.I know that zeovit doesn't suggest running ozone with their product but I don't feel I had any problems due to it. I'm gonna use Zeovit again on my next tank. The only real kicker with Zeovit in my experience is the price.

Wow Man that is alot of maintaining to get your tank looking like a picture. Well I use heavy skimming, CArbon, and Phosban, along with Kalk and i dont get that green algae build up i may get the odd Bubble algae on a patch here and there andthat is it. Or some rel turf that covers the rocks ,but then the phos ban takes care of that. the ocean doesn't use Zeo and look at what it looks like, yes i know that the ocean has all the proper supplements in to house what ever and the proper lighting and the corals to react to what ever mother nature throws out.

But i do know taking your time in doing water changes and getting good quality rocks and feeding the right amount and not over stocking your tank will give you the satisfaction of a nice looking tank. Yes all tank are different and do cycle different but that is what makes this hobby great understanding what has to be done and doing it to your time allowance.

REEF Roids
Zeo
and other products may have the right solution, and cost money. Well its not for me old fashion is the way to go in my books..

you tank will always have something wrong with its not like the ocean.. that is just my Opinion

You're missing the point here. There's a huge difference between your average tank and an ultra low nutrient tank (ULN).

Anyone can run GAC, GFO and O3 and get a decent - good looking tank. Probiotic tanks, however, are on a whole different level. Take a look at the Interzoo pictures; the colors are AMAZING!. I friend of mine just came back from there and his comments went along the line of "Yeah, you know that new program? The new photoshop that you install on your fish tank instead of your computer? Yeah, they used it on those corals there.

Speaking of colors and ULN systems, you know what never fails to amaze me, people always talk about how pastel European corals look and never pause to consider the fact that pastel colors are some of the hardest to maintain. It's easy to have a super metallic Green Slimer or a deep, deep Red Robin Millepora, but someone out there pick up a Baby Blue Gemmifera and keep it looking like over 20 generations in the same (non-ULN tank) and I'll show you an unusually talented aquarist!

As far as the ocean not using Zeo? No, not in the way imagine it doesn't, but there are bacterial processes happening there that you will not be able to replicate using GAC, GFO and O3. Trust me, Zeovit is about as close to the Ocean as a reef tank gets, my friend. This keeping in mind that the ocean ISN'T a closed system like our tanks either.

That's how you run a normal tank. It's not how you get a ULN tank.

I don't agree with SUV's being allowed on the road, but I don't like SMART cars either. I'm also not a huge fan of the silent Jihad that's slowly permeating our society. I also am of the mind that tax dollars going to fund safety injection centers is an absolute crock of Donkey Dung =P That's my Opinion, haha.

Personally, I'm glad our hobby allows room for everyone to achieve success in different ways, so cheers to that!

I was hoping you'd chime in here, Albert! Thanks everyone for the comments. I will let you know how things progress. I think getting the TDS issue under control will definitely help (duh...I know better).

Yeah Albert helped me with the same problem. It took a couple of weeks to get it sorted out. I have tried a few other methods on my other tanks but nothing worked for me like zeo. Honestly as some one who has gone through a bad start to zeo I can honestly say. It was never the system it was the user.

holy heck
Albert easy on picking on me:mrgreen: good point thou. see its even on threads where you always will get a different answer even on simple things that goes on in a reef tank. may be im old fashion, im not bashing it its just seems that its alot of work and money to get something looking amazing. Im just glad that i can actually take care of a reef tank and wouldnt trade any of my experience that i have learned for anything.

but on another note thanks for making me look dumb :mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen: J K

LOL! Not trying to pick on you! You're making me feel like the bad guy here, haha.

:lol:
:bad-word:

I'm telling you man! Go through the list I made you and you WILL see results....... There is some good advice here!:changes:

you bully
its good to have great knowledgable persons like you in this site man..

Drew needs to edit the title of this thread to "Okay, now I'm PRO".

LOL

The ocean doesn't look like zeo tanks. For every pastel blue "wonder zippy" acro you see on a reef there are hundreds of dull brown boring ones. The super pastel colours are an aberration, a defensive reaction to photo saturation in a low nutrient environment. Promoting Zeovit as a way to get a "natural" looking reef tank is seriously silly.

However if ULN and bright colours is what you want to achieve these systems are effective. My personal experience is limited as I've never been an SPS lover and for a toadstool loving peon it doesn't seem worth the expense. From the messing about I have done though it is clear to me that this is a complicated balance to achieve, I'm not surprised that so many people have the results Drew has talked about. It's something you have to play with and find out what implementation of "the recipe" is going to work in a given situation, this will take a serious effort. Too many people are disappointed with marginal initial results and give up.

Stick with it Drew and I'll bet you get it to work.

I feel your pain Drew. I am in the same boat... my poor tank looks like a cesspool right now. Fuilm algae out of control, cyano like you wouldn't imagine.. and on top of it I am starting to lose coral. I keep adjusting my zeo but it is a struggle to find the right balance.