cloudy water
 

I have a 120gal display tank with about 60 gal of sump. My doser went a bit crazy and I now have very cloudy water. Looks like watery milk. Doser is offline for about 7 days now and I have done 3 x 40gal water changes and its not getting any better.

It looks like a fair bit of mag and alk was added.

My Alk numbers were at 220ppm (12dkh) and after the first water change it dropped to 210 (11.7dkh). Last water change it dropped to about 202ppm (11.4dkh).

I am out of mag and cal tests currently.

Tested PH last night and got 7.61

It doesnt look like the fish are having any issues except getting lost in the tank. I can only see them if they get within 4 inchs of the glass. The zoas i can see are open.

The reading I have been doing says to not bother testing anyways as they will be false high reading from precipitate. The skimmer just makes a huge head of foam after a few hours and pops the lid off. The glass gets a slimy white film.

Any thing more that can be done or just ride it out as I have read on many articles.

Hi,

It sounds more like a bacterial bloom than a buffer problem since you said the skimmer is going crazy and there's white slime on the glass.

Try a UV sterilizer.

Cheers,
Tim

Hmm not to sure. I know the doser did inject very large quantities of cal, alk, mag. I can see particulate flowing around ( very small). Im wondering if this imbalance caused a bacterial bloom. I figured the precipitate may be attached to film algae.
I dont have access to a uv sterilizer right away. Any way to diferentiate between a chemical imbalance or bloom.

This description sounds like precipitate due to imbalance in calc and alk added. I would just do a some hefty water changes to try and stabilize the system.

If your seeing particulate floating around and see it settled out on the film on the glass then I would suspect buffer problems too. If your mag is high enough... 3x the Calcium or at least 1350 then you should not be getting any clouding. If your alk and ca are high and your mag low then you get can get clouding or calcium buildups forming on glass and magnets. Get a test kit and check your magnesium levels. The only confusing issue is the high alk but low pH. Perhaps your pH meter needs to be cleaned and calibrated.

Are you using Instant Ocean saltmix?

Sounds like at least part of the issue is a bacterial bloom. Are you dosing carbon?

Best solution is larger water changes IMO

EDIT: and of course, if you are dosing carbon, half your dose for a while

No carbon dosing.
I am using instant ocean and the ph meter i used is calibrated (used at work).
Ill grab some new test kits and alot more salt on thursday and continue doing water changes.

I have had Instant Ocean be very high(12.8dKH) in Alk and low(1000 mg/l) in mag. Check your Magnesium before you do a water change. Also make sure the parameters are correct in the new salt water before using it in your tank.

Apparently instant ocean has changed their mix a bit with respect to mag, they've had higher mag (around 1350) for a while now from what I've read

I emptied my last bucket of IO doing my last water changes and was surprised at the lack of alk drop by doing 3x 40gal changes. I havent been checking my wc water params but maybe i should. I cant get anymore io salt in the area i live. Going to head to edm on thurs to buy more salt and test kits ( anyone know who will have cal/mag kits instock in edm, seems many dont have them). My mag was at 900 once i got my alk and cal close so i may have added a bit much as i over a few weeks i tried o get it closer to proper levels.
My fish are alive but not eating that i can see 4" from the glass.
Damn foxface keeps staring at me as he sits by the tank glass and glares at me all day. Most fish i see once every few days.

I don't think doing waterchanges is your main concern right now. I would be getting test kits right away. Buy good ones - Salifert or Elos. The Hanna Checker for alkalinity is really good (the calcium one is terrible imo).

Step 1 - test magnesium. If it is lower than 1350, raise it up around 1300-1500 with magnesium chloride.

Step 2 - test alkalinity. Dose if needed (8-9 dKH). If high, move to step 3. Don't worry if it's 11-12 dKH, that's fine, just make just your calcium matches that (see chart below).

Step 3 - test calcium. Dose if needed (415-430 ppm). If high, wait it out.

Honestly, I think the problem is that you have high calcium and alkalinity and low magnesium. When you get magnesium up higher it should sort itself out. If it's bacteria, it will sort itself out too.

Also, test calcium, alkalinity, and magnesium of your water change water every time you open a new bucket. I haven't noticed an increase in magnesium in IO yet - maybe I have an old batch. If you're doing a bunch of water changes with saltwater low in magnesium it's not going to magically raise magnesium. :D

http://i938.photobucket.com/albums/a...ddKHandCal.png

Im using a hanna alk meter. I have the hanna calcium checker but never could get results that were consistant. I was using elos for my mag and calcium. Hopefully i will find a store in edmonton with the kits tomorrow. My last trip in i couldnt find any and my last order they were omited as out of stock.

I just did a group of tests
Sg 1.024
No3 10
Alk 208
Po4 1.56
Ca (hanna) 506, 454, 518

If the hanna is correct around 500 range then ca is a bit high.

Wouldn't raise mag, but would lower calcium, especially if it's io. His sg is a bit low so maybe adding a ton of mag chloride is a good idea, but typically that would raise your sg a bit much. Plus a water change is cheap.

Finally got a mg test kit. Called every store that i know of in edmonton and finally one with a kit.

mg = 1200
ca = 310
alk = 220

Guess I will take the calcium up to about 450

This still baffles me that Im getting precipitate as I have had similar readings as this except my mg was lower.

I think if you add calcium you will increase precipitation at this point. Try and get your magnesium up to 1350 before adding calcium imo. If you plan on running your Alk that high long-term, I'd even consider going a bit higher with the mag

Prob should get the mag up also.

I dont really plan on running the alk this high. It just kind of got there.

Your numbers aren't that bad anymore because the precipitation has already occurred. This is obvious by the low calcium.

Get Mg up to 1350 ppm first. You will need it to support the addition of calcium. Fwiw, you will need a lot of magnesium chloride so use a powdered product, not a liquid one. Check out one of the reef calculators like the BRS one or the one on Reef Central.

Also, when you add a bunch of calcium the alkalinity will drop just from the addition of the calcium. Don't add more than about 50 ppm calcium per 24 hours, and expect to only have to go to about 430 ppm because alkalinity will probably drop to about 20 ppm with the addition of 100 ppm calcium.

As TimT says, I think there is a bacterial bloom at the same time too which is why you're seeing the low pH and the skimmer is going crazy. Unless you just have the skimmer poorly adjusted or sitting too deep in the water. Calcium precipitation doesn't make the skimmer go crazy.

I'd have to agree on the bacterial bloom. You could have done absolutely nothing and a bacterial bloom could happen. Just one of those things. Should balance out in a week or two.

Thats some good info.
The makes sense about the calcium. I wasnt really thinking things through late last night.

I added some mag this morning and Ill see where it is when I get home. I have some powdered mag chloride.

I hope this goes away fairly soon. My fish arent really eating much to anything. I only see the odd fish once a day or so. Except the foxface he sits against the glass and watches me all day.

The skimmer is setup the same as its always run. I actually backed it off a bit to prevent the foam from getting to crazy. Sump gets a foam head around the skimmer 6-8" tall. Skimmate is a dull brown tea color. I scoop the foam out of the sump every evening.

That is certainly a bacterial issue. Just keep plugging along...you're going in the right direction.

did some testing again tonight.

sg = 1.024
nitrate = 9
PO4 = 0
Alk = 223
Calcium = 360
MG = 1460

Tank is still pure white.
Rocks are slightly slimy

The readings are starting to look better. Hopefully the calcium will creep up on its own.

I did find one more thing today though. I found one of the heaters cracked and was leaking some current into the sump downstairs. Maybe thats the source of this bacterial bloom.

Todays values

alk - 237ppm
ca - 370
mg - 1460


Still really cloudy - no change. fish still swimming in there somewhere.
interesting that the alk went up since yesterday.
Im going to start adding some ca tomorrow if the numbers stay steady.

Is your doser still running? How did the alkalinity go up?

Im not really sure what happened there. My doser is shutdown. Im going to verify what I get tomorrow for alk.
The only thing that I can think of is the slight increase in SG by evap, but thats pretty remote.

Heres a quick pic of what I have.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwB...ew?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwB...ew?usp=sharing

I was told that the tank isnt as cloudy as it was...

I cant seem to make the image show so heres the link


https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwB...ew?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwB...ew?usp=sharing

I did a quick read on your entire post and I see few things that really not needed to be fixed or at least one issue at a time.

1st why are you trying to play so much with chemical imbalance in your tank..is it full of SPS or LPS? If not then leave the chemicals and the testing out for now till you fix the other issues.

A broken heater could lead to few problems one possibly a bacteria bloom.remove the dead heater do a water change, replace your Activated carbon and make sure your skimmer is running properly.

I think your cloudy water started by chemical imbalance by your doser crapping out then it lingered few days as you kept trying to fix the imbalance,..You cannot see your fish so you probably added more fish food more often for them to survive, from doing so you created alot of proteins running in your tank then the bacteria bloom started taking over and you still have it mixed with chemical imbalance and nothing will get better unless you take it one step at a time.

Most replies are above are great for getting your chemicals properly in check.

Take slow and I mean very slow.
Tune down your lighting period or percentage, replace the Activated carbon, fix the skimmer, keep temperature between 78 and 80 degree (slows down the bacteria bloom), do a couple water changes directly from and by over driving your skimmer (wet skimming), keep feeding your fish as you did in the past, less food is always best as you want the fish to scavenge around your tank, of course keep the tank turn over as much as possible (the more oxygen the better)
in no more that 10 days (max) and your water should clear out fine.
then go ahead and tackle the chemical imbalance again very slowly.

Hope that helps:biggrin:

There you go

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/UN...21N=w1506-h653

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/U8...PjE=w1506-h653

Take care to test accurately. Make sure you measure water accurately and use level scoops, etc. This is likely testing error. Then just wait for the bacterial bloom to go away. :)

Thanks for the reply.

I havent really been messing with a whole lot during this. The tank is alot of acans, zoas, other lps some sps. I started dosing a little while back and figured that the imbalance was causing the issue. Heater is removed when I found it. Carbon is fresh recently. The skimmer is tuned so that it will actually skim something. If I put it any wetter it pops the lid off the cup and makes the sump look like someone tossed brown dishsoap in it.

I lowered the feedings. Noone wants to eat. I feed very minimal (about 50% ) what i used to feed since no fish are eating when I see them. I never really did feed high amounts.

My temp today is 24.5-25C (76-77F) It has been around this temp forever.

I have been thinking about putting an air stone in the tank to help oxygen.

Hopefully now that the chemical imbalance is mostly taken care of now the bacterial issue will slowly be dealt with. I have read many articles about bacterial blooms and most say to wait it out.. Some say that water changes can make it worse. It has been 12 days and the fish I occasionally see seem fine.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwB...ew?usp=sharing

This revolting thing was cleaned 2.5 hours ago. When I came home from work the lid was popped off and the foam was covering the sump to the skimmer cup. There was about 1" liquid in it.

Hopefully soon the tank will turn around soon.

Thanks

Im usually pretty careful to be exact on my tests. Your right that this probably is a testing abnormality. I re did the test and got 210ppm.

You should be ok for oxygen since your skimmer is running. If you point a powerhead at the surface to make a good ripple that will help. You're going to have to get your parameters balanced out at some point, may as well be while you're waiting for it to clear up. That's the only reason I've suggested to get your calcium back up to where it should be (that and raising calcium will lower alkalinity).

sounds good. I have pretty decent ripples from the closed loop. Ill just slowly raise the Calcium over the next few days and keep watching things. This morning I could see slightly further into the tank.

I did some tests tonight and all the same as yesterday. The cloudyness is starting to go away slowly. I can prob see 5" into tank.
starting to get better.

Yep, gotta be bacterial bloom clearing up imo

Have all my parameters in check still and the bloom is still partially subsiding. The fish are all accounted for and starting to resume cruising around. Still really cloudy, can see about 10" into the water. The skimmer is producing more liquid and less foam now. Im going to keep it set as is and dumping out the brown goo.

Should be on its way to being back to normal soon.

Thanks for all the help.

Good to hear there is improvement and that the fish are still ok. :)