Cheryl's 165 Gallon upgrade
 

I have had a 75 G for a few years and I was doing really well until I replaced the sump, which entailed a move of the livestock and the tank.... I didn't replace the sand. I have been fighting with it for over a year now to try and get it back in balance....

So I have been hemming and hawing about how to start again, so I can do it properly. Well, I have just purchased my replacement tank... It is 165 Gallon (72X24x20). I won't actually get it until May sometime and we will build the stand for it ourselves. http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/pic...pictureid=5289

This will be a long build as, I have decided that I am going to get everything I need before I start and as I live where there is no LFS... It will all be trips out and mail order.

I am working on my equipment list and it is slow going....

I know I have to replace my skimmer, but trying to decide which one is the better is not easy. The price range is amazing as well. I currently have a Vertex 80 and I have no real complaints about that brand. But why would similarly sized protein skimmers range in price from 350 - 1600 dollars. I haven't found a whole lot on the diffrence between them but crap are the Bubble Kings ever expensive and I really don't know if it is just brand name or they are better quality.

I have a 48" T5 Tek Light which I love. 6 bulbs, I can't remember the wattage. I will keep it but I am trying to decide whether to have 2 LED pendants or 2 Halides at either end.

I am also trying to decide if I can talk my husband into giving up a corner of his office for the sump to be in the basement.... I don't think I will be totally successful with that, so I have to make sure everything is quiet enough and fits under the cabinet.

I would love any advice I can get as I am far away from person to person contact in the saltwater community... feeling isolated I guess. Feel like a newbie all over again.

Hi Cheryl, as a northerner myself I share your frustrations with not having any local suppliers and very few reefers. Looking forward to watching your build. I am just getting all my pieces together to start my own build.
I took the leap into LED's with the Echotech Radions. I'm thinking that I can pretty much do whatever kind of tank, and lighting will not be no problem.

As far as skimmers go, my suggestion would be to check in with Asmodeus. His former handle was The Skimmer King. From what I have seen he is the guru of all things skimmer. I think the prices reflect a definite difference in quality but I wouldn't even look at a BK unless I had a tank full of SPS.

Best thing about Canreef is that there are a lot of people with tons of experience who are very willing to share.

Well the list is coming together. I know I am getting a RO/DI,auto top off(tunze) and replacing the sump.

What is the ratio of sump to tank I should look at. Is it just a matter of being able to get my equipment in it or is there a calculation based on tank size?

Sorry Cheryl, Missed the question,
I am sure that there is some equation for this. But my opinion is that what ever you can accommodate under your tank that fits all your equipment. LOL
If its an external sump then really there is no limit up too actually DT size.

Any new updates ???

there probably is a calculation but I've always thought of a sump as a good hiding place for all the equipment you don't want in your tank, so if you can fit it all in there and still have some nice flow, you're good to go. Also don't forget to think about water changes and your system volume (at least thats what I thought of ie. how much salt to do a 20% weekly water change) it can get pricey with a larger system volume when its not all display tank.

For sump size I would make it large enough so that you can do the amount of gallons for water changes that you are planning which means you don't have to remove water from the display, and also make it large enough so it can handle the water that flows back from the display tank during a power outage.

As for skimmers yes it would be nice to have a bubble king as they are of amazing quality but for a quarter of the price i'm running a bubble magus skimmer on my full SPS tank and its has been great.

Well, the tank arrived and I will open it when I return home on the 18 th. Build the stand and then empty the 75 gallon and put the fish, rock and corals in holding tanks while I build this one out.

I will pickup sand and maybe some macro algae down here. Otherwise I have most every thing else...bought just waiting for it to arrive.

Here is the tank sitting beside the house. Still packed up from the trip up the Alaska highway. It is packed in a 1/2 inch plywood with 1/2 inch rigid foam around it.... I am keeping my fingers crossed that when I open it on the 18th all is good.

http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/pic...pictureid=5392

Let the fun begin, all that extra room to stock with corals and fish. Nice.

So the stand is built and the finishing on it is almost done. I used Flex coat waterproofing inside the stand and on the top. The rest is cabinet grade birch and I have just varathaned it.

http://i1173.photobucket.com/albums/...d/71e0d30c.jpg Before finishing

After finishing:http://i1173.photobucket.com/albums/...ank-stand2.jpg

We decided to add 2 pieces of Angle Iron on the back bolted to the stand for putting on a light frame at a later date.

I need to dry fit the sump and decide where I am going to put holes in the back for the returns. I also need some advice on how to plumb it.

It has the return holes in the Eurobracing on the top and there are 2 holes in the bottom just behind the center of the tank. The bulk heads are 1 inch so I was thinking of having the 1 inch pipes to the level I want to drain and then put a 4 inch piece of PVC around them and attach my rocks to them so they are kinda hidden. Not sure if this is the best way, but I am really leary to drill the tank myself as if I break it I am out of luck and I already sold my 75 gallon.

Cheryl congrats on the tank. if u wanna pm me your number I can call you direct and discuss skimmers with ya. I know that there are many types of skimmers out there and it can be confusing

Thanks for the offer.

I think I am going to stick with what I have, as I really need to spend my money on plumbing and other necessities. I will give you a shout when I am ready to buy a new skimmer.

Tank stand continues
 

Well, getting closer. We got the rug and laminate floor cut out where the tank stand will sit over the beam.We had to cut out the flooring to get rid of the transition and I am looking at replacing the carpet in the next year or so ,which means I don't need to move the tank to do it.

The tank stand in it's final location:
http://i1173.photobucket.com/albums/...7-09201227.jpg

The tank stand is all finished and set in place. We glued in rubber foam inside the stand to dampen any noise. Under the foam rubber is a waterproof coating to contain any water that may spill out of the sump.

I got the fans and vents installed today and it works okay.... They are 4inch USB low voltage fans and they should help keep the temperature of the water a little more stable. I have seemed to have a bigger temperature fluctuation issues more this year than any other.

The fans on the outside:
http://i1173.photobucket.com/albums/...7-09201039.jpg

a shot from the inside of the stand:
http://i1173.photobucket.com/albums/...7-09201121.jpg

I am now at the point where I need to get the tank on the stand, the sump and the skimmer container in the stand, and figure out the rest of the plumbing pieces I need to order. We have a Home Hardware so I can get most of the PVC I need but I will need to order gate valves, bulkheads, possibly flexible PVC and figure out what I am going to use for returns.

Still need to purchase:
1. Wave maker or controlled water pumps.
2. a new return pump
3. new heaters

I think I will then be at the point, equipment wise, to be able to run the tank and add equipment while I am cycling the tank. I have more equipment then I used to run my 75 Gallon, so I am feeling fairly confident that I could get it going as a FOWLR to start. I currently have my fish, couple of softies and live rock spread across 1 20 G and 2 10 G tanks spread around the house, so I really want to start getting this cycling.

So, we have had water in the tank since Wednesday last week. I was really stoked,except I have been emptying it everyday since, to try and fix the leaks in the connection between the skimmer tank and the sump. Ever time I think I have it fixed, I fill it up and the connection is leaking again. I am really frustrated with it right now.

The topper was the purple long tentacle anemone I bought and was holding in my tank at work. Someone plugged something in and popped the breaker. No power for the weekend, and I found it on Monday. The fish made it the anemone didn't.

Grrrrrr.... bad tank week!!!!!

So it has been a while since I updated... Things ended up moving a whole lot faster than I planned. We noticed the stand the temporary holding tank was on was not holding. it had started to sag and the legs were splaying... Therefore the fish got moved to the new tank about 5 weeks sooner than I wanted.

I have put a larger peice of PVC around the 1 " returns and have drilled 1 and 1/2 inch holes to hang the rockwork as best I can.

This is the right Pillar initally
http://i1173.photobucket.com/albums/...d/9d3857d3.jpg

The left pillar initally
http://i1173.photobucket.com/albums/...d/991363ff.jpg

I then had a little issue with keeping the pillar glued down. I had initally just siliconed it to the bottom of the tank. I have now used coral glue and aquarium expoxy.

It now looks like this:
http://i1173.photobucket.com/albums/...09-01-2012.jpg

I still have some rocks to finish hanging and then I can glue the few corals I have.

Update
 

So I have taken a full tank shot today.
http://i1173.photobucket.com/albums/...0928038A42.jpg

I have some new live stock:
long tenticled anemone
blue sided fairy wrasse
red striped hawk fish
3 orange mushrooms
3 green hairy mushrooms

My old livestock is:
sailfin tang
2 pink skunk clownfish
2 perc clownfish
orange spoted goby
bi-coloured blennie

I don't have a lot of coral/mushrooms:
2 colonies of green star polyps
green candy cane coral
and one that I thought was a Chalice but I don't think it is.(I would love an ID)
http://i1173.photobucket.com/albums/...09F035181E.jpg

I am waiting for a set of lights I bought of a member. 72" T5 and 3x250 watt mhi. I am just waiting for it to be shipped. I am hoping that will give me some added light and allow me to look at other coral as well. I want to go with LED's but... I need to save up for a bit.

Pagoda cup coral

Nice setup! By the way, 72x24x20 is 150g :-). I know because that's the exact same dimensions as my 150g tank :-)

Good to know. I never punched the dimensions into a calculator, just went by eat the fellow I bought off said.

I am having a plumbing issue. I really don't know if I should be striving for a full syphon on my 1 " drains or not. If I get a full syphon my pump ( sedra 7000) and skimmer compartment can't keep up and I overflow. If I don't have a full syphon, I have to restrict my pump so much, I am afraid it will burn out...

I just can't find a happy medium and I don't know what I should be striving for.

If you put a gate valve on your drain then you can restrict the amount of water entering your sump and allow your return pump to run at full bore. That's what I do....my drain is a siphon and my pump runs at full speed. Barely makes a sound at all.

Sent from my HTC Incredible S using Tapatalk 2

I have a ball valve on it now, but had already decide I had to change it out for gate valves.... I will also have to raise the height of the drain pipes in the tank. When I get a full syphon, the water level is about 1-1 1/2 " lower then I want.

Thanks, I wasn't sure I wanted the pipe at full syphon, but I guess it makes sense for water turn over.

3rd flood in as many weeks. The one pipe caught the syphon again and dumped 20+ gallons into the sump. Unfortunately my skimmer container is lower than my sump.

So, my gate valves are here and I know that if I lower my water, I can change out the plumbing underneath.

My dilemma is inside the tank.

1. I have to raise the pipes inside or I really only have 100 ( or less) gallons inside the display. Do I have to regular the PVC or will it fit tight enough just slipped together?

2. One of the pipes has a 180 degree turn so it pulled water from under the surface and was quiet. Is that wise? I have a skim on the surface of the tank because the surface never drains. Hate it but want a quieter tank?

Opinions?

Anyone want to come to Whitehorse and help me fix this??? Really despising the lack of expertise up here right now. :)

Any chance you can post pics of what you have exactly. It might help determine what issues you might be having and how best to fix it. Pics are truly worth 1000 words.

Plumbing issues
 

So here are some pictures. If you need more or a diffrent angle, let me know.

This is the left return stand pipe. It is the one with the 180 degree angle to be underwater and is the main return to the skimmer container. There is a hole on the top as I originally thought I didn't want it to have a full syphon.
http://i1173.photobucket.com/albums/...39CB2AD698.jpg

Here is the right return stand pipe. It is straight through and usually is above water.
http://i1173.photobucket.com/albums/...39C5C829DC.jpg

They are a couple of feet from each other centered in the middle of the tank.
http://i1173.photobucket.com/albums/...39D04D8654.jpg

They both go down and join together to flow to the skimmer container first. Right now they both have ball valves that I want to switch out.
Left:http://i1173.photobucket.com/albums/...39D55B7D79.jpg
Right:http://i1173.photobucket.com/albums/...39D7AF5B68.jpg

The sump and the skimmer container are joined together with 1 inch pvc between them.

http://i1173.photobucket.com/albums/...39E53ADA58.jpg

I was thinking of raising the skimmer container up so the top was level with the sump.... but I don't think I have enough room with the pipes and the stand height.

I am going to see about getting a sump build for me, but that is going to take time and money and I need to deal with this really quickly.

I don't want to drain the tank to do this but if I have to I would then like to have an external overflow built. I figure i could do most of it myself, but I have no idea how I would lower the back of the tank to have the overflow.

Hope these help.

If you need to see bigger pictures, here is the link to my photobucket album.

http://i1173.photobucket.com/albums/...39CB2AD698.jpg

Thanks

Sorry that link only is to the first pic, not the album. Is this a full herbie? and the second pic is basically your safety overflow? Can't really see it in the small pic.

Sorry about that. :redface:

Try this: http://pbckt.com/ar.wdhyJ

I am not sure what you mean by a " full Herbie". I looked at several types of drains and found that the stand pipe that was under the water was quietest. So I did that on one side and, left the other upright.... Like a vent stack on plumbing and in case the other fit plugged up.

Honestly, I was guessing because I don't have an overflow and couldn't find examples of a similar setup.

Ahhh,I think I get it now. The pics helped a lot. So let me see if I get this correctly:
You have 2 pipes in your display. The one on the left comes up to the level of you maximum water level and you have a strainer on it. This would be considered your safety drain in a herbie set up.
You have a second, or primary drain, on the right. It seems to me you have a 3/4" or so running inside of 2" or 3". Then on the back side of that "sleeve pipe", at you water surface level, the 3/4" 90's out and then 90's down again with a strainer on it.
Like you said, with this arrangement you have no surface skimming. And because of the height of the tub your skimmer sits in and where it ties into the sump with the bulkhead, you cannot use much of the water storage capacity because the tub would overflow.
Is that a correct rough summary?

A couple questions:
1: What is that sleeve pipe on the right with the little grooves cut off the top that the drain runs out the back of?
2: Are you looking to have a full siphon system (herbie)? These do tend to be the quietest because there is no air entering the pipes to make any noise.

Yes, that right.

The returns are 1" PVC. The sleeve I have over the one is only for aesthetics. I have plugs on some of my live rock and I use the 4 " PVC sleeve to hang the rock. There isn't one on the left because I kept knocking it off the glue as I couldn't get the weight balanced.

I want a full Herbie, but with no surface skimming I don't know if that is the best idea. I am looking at figuring out how to fix this plumbing with what I have ( I may change the skimming container no matter what.) and then ordering a custom sump, that will work with this setup anyway.

If I end up having to drain the tank to do any work on these pipes I will have a problem as all I have left in the house is a 20 gallon quarantine tank. I would then also consider doing it properly with an external overflow, if I could find someone local to cut my glass.

Hmmmm. I think you're right. The easiest (without draining and re-doing you system) is a hang on overflow. I've heard nasty rumours about them and they appear to have a greater risk of flooding for some reason. I've never used or seen one so not sure.
I'm wondering if there is some way either replace the 4" PVC sleeve with one that has overflow teeth and somehow get it to seal where it meets the bottom of the tank to create a centre style overflow. Then you could just cut that one drain so it's 3"-4" below the water line inside that centre overflow. I think you said you have a gate valve, which you would put on that line to control the flow....
I'm just not entirely sure how you could create that seal between the bottom of that 4" PVC and the tank...
As far as the skimmer tub is concerned, if you didn't want to or can't get a full sump yet, try looking for a deeper tub. One that is the same height as you sump. You may also want to either increase the size of the bulkhead joining the 2 or add another one to allow quicker flow for when power fails on you get a sudden rush of water back into the sump system.

That's all I got :)
Maybe someone else can chime in about creating a centre style overflow in there without tearing it all apart..

So I raised the stand pipes and got my gate valves in. I am still having issues trying to get in and out balanced. It is never right on.

I got a really good deal on a 35 g tank, stand, 20 lbs of rock and sand. I washed and added the sand and the rock. The level in the sump didn't really changed but the level in the tank is quite a bit higher. I think we have the return turned down too much. This is harder than I thought it would be.

I think the next step is to change the skimmer container. Raise it so it is the same height as the sump, and put a 1 1/2 inch bulk head between the 2 containers. I am hoping that will help with the balancing.

My husband is worried that with all the fiddling that needs to be done our kids won't be able to fish sit and we will have a mess while we are away. Maybe he is getting more interested in the hobby....miracles do happen. ;p

Well, I guess you don't always have to have a LFS to get live stock. About 2 week ago I purchased a 40 gallon with about 50 lbs of live rock, 30 lbs of sand and 2 fish. A small perc clown and a convict blennie. Cost me $250

Today I was approached by a lady that asked for some help. She inherited a tank when she bought her house. Her light has broken and the guy in town that was helping her doesn't have time, and she was desperate. I have now been given a 75 gallon with 4 fish and about 50 or 60 lbs of live rock. The fish are another convict blennie, an onyx clown, a pink anthias and a tang... Not sure what kind, Greg with pin stripes down the length of his body with a white dot by his tail. I will post a picture.

From what I have read... The convict blennies should get along, but I would love some advise. I am a little worried about the tangs. I have a Sailfin, I have had since about 2009.

She has lots (holy crap) lots of bristle worms. She admits to major over feeding, so the rock will go into QT with no food while I am on holidays ( 3 weeks).

I would love to hear what people think about the dynamic of the fish in my 150 gallon. Current stock list is
2 Perc clown fish
2 pink skunk clown fish
1 sailfin tang
1 convict blennie
1 red striped hawk fish
1 bi-colored blennie
1 long tenticaled anenome


Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

Cheryl's 165 Gallon upgrade
 

So, I made a change to the plumbing on this tank and I noticed that the bulkhead on the tank was wet on the threads. I don't want to take the chance of the bulkhead failing so I am moving the fish, rock.... Everything but the sand to the 75 gallon. Drain the tank. Replace the bulk heads and build overflows. I am trying to figure which will be best, 2 overflows around the current bulkheads or a large one at the back with the PVC then running to the bulkheads in the centre of the tank? With the second option I think I would run the PVC along the bottom of the tank, then using a 90 degree, run it up the inside back to the bulkhead in the overflow.

I don't know which would be a better way to go?

You could build an overflow box (3 sided around both of your stand pipes) out of glass or acrylic similar to the picture below. This will give you a full herbie drain, an emergency drain, and surface skimming. If you build it full height you don't require any additional bulkheads or holes drilled. Another advantage is that the top of the overflow will dictate a constant water level in the tank. A gate valve on the full herbie drain should let you fine tune the flow perfectly. You do loose some tank real estate but worth it IMO.

I use 2 30 gallon tanks for a sump, maybe you could use the 10s and 20s you have to increase your sump volume??

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/06/uqasypab.jpg

My problem with that is that the two hole drilled in my tank are in the centre of the tank and are 3 feet apart. If I go with a overflow around the current pipes, then I will have to build 2 one around each.

That is why I was contemplating a single large overflow inside on the back, with PVC being run to meet it.

I will try to draw what I am thinking and scan in the drawing tomorrow. I am not sure, if I want to re-drill the tank or not.... I think I would prefer not.

I understand better now that I had a closer look at the pics. That's a difficult layout to make work.

You could definitely plumb the 2 existing holes to an overflow at the back of the tank. The wider it is the better the surface skimming. Hiding the plumbing with rock would be fairly easy as well.

2 separate overflows gets tricky to tune and you really don't end up with an emergency drain.

Post a few more pics and you'll find a solution.

How far should the water fall? My internal measurements for depth of the tank, is 21". I was thinking the over flow would be 12" deep with 1-11/2 " for the egg crate. The fall to the bulk head will be 10 1/2 to 11 ".

I am thinking my overall dimensions will be 48"x 7" x 12"? I was thinking 7" as my Euro-bracing is about 3" wide, and this will allow me to get my hand in.

Thoughts?