An observation about sand and fine sand
 

So in the past year, I've told several dozen people who were having issues with algae and cyano to get rid of their sand. Their problems went away.

That is all.

just tell everyone...... what Albert means is GO BARE BOTTOM!!!

If it weren't for my wrasse I would (and had!).

I heard the leading ingredient in vaPOOrize is sand and/or fine sand. It makes the poo just magically disappear.

But shhhh. This powerful piece of knowledge is only aware to those in the aquaria trade.

Never. Bare bottom tanks look ugly and unnatural. I like to feel like im looking at the bottom of the ocean when admiring my tank. I'l deal with the algae so I dont get lazy and keep up good maintenance

That's an interesting observation.

I am currently observing that my tank, with sand, currently does not have algae or cyan issues. However, this is just a preliminary observation so I will report back when my findings are more conclusive. :big grin:

Also, +1. Sand vs No Sand is in part, psychological. Some people see reef tanks as merely a box with a collection of saltwater organisms in it supported by powerbeads, plumbing, etc. However, some see their tanks as an as close an approximation of a reef biosystem as they can make it.

I totally dislike the bare bottom look. I have always used fine sand in my set ups and I have never had algae problems. Oh, and my set ups have always been skimmerless and sumpless feeding frozen food couple times a day. Water changes were done every couple of months or longer. Finally, Metal halide and T5 bulbs were changed every few years and when they got replaced I didn't really notice any difference in my corals...I guess am the exception ........different things work for different people.

Here is a picture of my previous set up that ran pretty successfully for many years.

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m265/yvr_75/2-20.jpg


http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m...ps36c48178.jpg


http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m...359575704.jpeg

Bare bottom
 

I definatly do like the look with sand, but my new tank is bare bottom. Definatly easier to maintain. Kinda hoping my zoas cover the bottom glass. The bare bottom look is growing on me

+1
A live sand bed is much more natural looking, provides a home for many critters that clean and scavenge there. In 15 years of reefing I have never had an issue with having a sand bed or algae for that matter. Over feeding and under maintenance are the biggest reasons why algae arise.

I totally agree with you. Some people have way too many fish, over feed and don't do the required maintenance. I highly doubt that sand alone is the problem......

I have done both, and BB is easier. But, I didn't enjoy the look and have gone back to sand. No algae issues.

Not to mention the contrast of a white sand bed and and eye popping colorful corals like in the images posted above/below wouldn't be possible:mrgreen: Beautiful!
http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m265/yvr_75/2-20.jpg

Yes very nice . And wow thats alot of rock flower anemone !!!

Well I guess we can disregard alberts obsevations.

Silly Albert. Didn't you know you can have a sandbed and be algae free.

I'd say he's pretty accurate :) If you have a problem, removing the sand would help a lot!

That's an old picture. You should see all the True Ultra Rock Flower Anemones that I have now :biggrin: Those that are circulating around right now are pretty average looking.

lol...

Posting under the influence is the best.

In any case, congrats on being the 1%.

We went bare bottom for several months when we set up a 210g and HATED it. Eventually both my wife and I agreed that having a sand bed was the only way we would enjoy that setup. It was the only time we experimented with BB. Have been doing sandbeds in my tanks for the last 12 years and loving it.

Sorry Albert. Its not as simple, IME, as just No sand = No algae. Algae issues are generally from several different causes, as others like Daniel have mentioned: a lack of maintenance, overfeeding, too many fish, old light bulbs, no tangs, etc.

Yes, if one has an algae issue, removing sandbed is probably a good idea based on your experiences and observations.

But as Daniel and others have also proven, sand beds do not automatically = algae issues in one's tank.

Besides, I love my leopard wrasse collection far too much to deprive them of their sand.

Interesting. Seems then like alberts observations could prove profitable for some.

Curious then as to why this potentially valuable information is being derailed.

Not sure if you are providing a link but its not working and yes I would like to see them please, thankyou

Well, as it's been stated, sand does not equal algae. But the other contributors could be bound in the sand, and removing it could help. Or replace it with new, clean sand. But I've almost always had sand and never had algae issues, even feeding very heavy. It's all tank/owner dependent, and for some, it could help an existing problem, or prevent a problem that the hobbyist wouldn't otherwise manage properly.
As with everything, it's A way, not THE way.

I agree with you on that , bare bottom not so much:biggrin:

Damn, y'all really love your sand.

Wellp, when you guys have unbeatable cyano and hair algae issues (which is the proposition of the post, not "I'm an advanced reefer and I never get these problems"), you let me know if you find an easier way to get them corrected than removing the substrate for a while :D

Now do that over a wide sampling of habits and incomes.

Oh, you found an easier solution? I'm all ears.

Not sure what you're implying here.

I think the spirit of the discussion has become lost under the polarization of BB vs sand.

Which spirit started this post? :)

^ Buahahahahah !!! we have a winner.

And albert I think the discussion is going just fine

I'm guessing the variety that should be going into the tank.

Dosing gone horribly wrong? Or right?? hehe

When I started to have cyano algae problems I checked my RODI unit and realized all filters and membrane needed replacement. I then started to use Prodibio as well and it solved the problem

Were you really expecting everyone to agree with you? Your way is not the only way to do things buddy. What works for you might not work for me and vice versa.

Okay, now let's pretend your RODI stuff is in good shape and you don't want to spend/afford the $$$ on dosing stuff.

Or how about you're doing everything right but your tank is 3 years old+ and you still have these issues.

Or what if you have a really large bioload because that's what you signed up for when you started this hobby.

Or what if your wife really, really likes to feed the fish and it's conditional to the tank taking up 6' x 2' + worth of the living space in your house.

Or what if this and that and whatever with rice?

Anyway, my point is that I've helped a ton of people overcome these sorts of issues and it all begins with removing old/dirty sand and running for at least a few months BB. You can add after you've overcome your problems if it just sets your soul into eternal torment. Or you can just cover the bottom with corals. Or you can just live with it because a clean tank > a dirty tank.

If I had said "you need to go BB, that's the only way to set up a tank", then no, I'd expect this sort of vigorous defense. However, I didn't state that :)

Here's an analogy: If your room is dirty, clean it.

Last time I was at your store (Oceanic Corals) I noticed that there was a lot of hair algae in your tanks and if I remember correctly they are bare bottom :smile:

I understand what you mean. But the prodibio is not that expensive. Replacing the sand would be much more expensive and more work.And you signed up for an expensive hobby as much as you signed up for a large bioload.. And as for your wife well ..you need to give her something else to play with my man:cool:

I'm going to have to disagree with you here on both counts. Prodibio IS expensive because it's recurring, open-ended cost that might not necessarily fix the problem. Not to say that removing an old sandbed fixes a problem, but it IS free, or damn near free, to do.

Work-wise, like anything, it's easy if you know what you're doing. I helped another board member pull out 1/3rd of the sandbed from his 60 gallon cube the other day. Took max 7 minutes. No mess in the tank, no cloudy water, like nothing happened. 1" diameter hose, some buckets and a helping hand is all you need.

I don't follow the line of reasoning here given that signing up for an expensive hobby and large bioload do not need to be mutually bound to signing up for doing more work than you have to.

"Honey! I just got home for the Love Shoppe with something for you. It's a deluxe model, should keep you happy for years. Now run along while I go spend $$$ on my fish tank." Not sure if that's how the world works. Can we get a chime from either some contemptuous wives or men who have to deal with contemptuous wives? lol... ♥

lol , super delux !!oh man im ****ing my pants laughing dude !!

Ok so I guess you mean to wash the old sand and put it back as opposed to buying new ? , of course i didn t think about that. And my tank is just 65 g, Prodibio would be more expensive for you.

I may be wrong in the spirit or the intent of the post. But I would assume it was not in the direction of justifying a algae free sandbed system.

We all have seen many beautiful algae free systems which have a sand bed. But not everyone has such a tank. Many if not most have nutrient problems, and resulting algae problems.

What benifit is it to those who have such a problem to simply say, I don't have such a problem. He's a picture to prove so. Who does this actually bennifit when the information quickly becomes redirected to ooohhh. Pretty tank.

I think any hobbiest with any real reefing time under there belt realize that no one way is the right way and success comes more from the hobbiest and the choices and practices therein.

Not everyone can replicate others success in the same fashion. So for many out there with algae problems, removing the sandbed could make life allot simplier for them. But instead of promoting information which may be valuable to that individual, we instead insist on sharing how "I" got it all figured out, overshadowing the actual practical and potentially beneficial information originaly presented.

No, removing a sand bed will not solve every problem. But for those who lack the experiance, the knowledge, the tools and equipment, the luck, doing so can prove to be benifical. Especially for those experiencing nutrient problems which result in the unwanted. The dependency and need for some equipment, regimiments, dosings, investments in, etc etc, can be lessened. Stability of the system and biological fluxes are lessened. All things which make running of the system simplier and easier for the user while they try and correct the issue or get a better undersrnading on the runnings of the system. A sandbed is the largest living organism in the system. And maintaining that system is not easy for everyone for a multitude of reasons. And just because you can and do, doesn't mean the next will have the same abilities to do so with the same success.

Frankly nutrient problems, algea problems, should in today's indistry be a rarity and not a norm. There simple to control and manage. But those who don't know how to mange them can't get the information they need because we love to overshadow inforamtion with our self promoting.

Oh, okay. Excuse me while I get back to my self promoting and not making any money by not selling sand. Incidentally, you'll find my ebook on amazon soon. Only $14.95. My personal success course should be ready for the spotlight shortly after that. Referral programs will be in place at launch. Live the life you want to live, get a barebottom reef.

Naw, washing old sand is like putting shot tires back on your car. Buying new sand is cheap. $45 for 40 lbs. That should give you enough shallow coverage to replace on a 65g at least three times, once each year ---> $15/year. Pretty affordable, assuming you decided to go back to it.

I think your confused on the intent of my post. The information and observation you originally presented was the information I am supporting.

Non the less... I agree. Reefing is made easy when the hardest part to maintain is removed. Running a coral tank is so simple when we're not trying to run a sewage treatment plant along side.