Is anyone else as cheesed off as i am?
 

Ok, i was in Big Als today
and to my disgust there was not 1
but 3 black tipped reef sharks in there main display.

yes, i know the tank is big, and the sharks aren't full grown yet, but they look almost too active for the tank already.
i was very mad that they would even consider open water sharks.
im sorry if anyone thinks i'm just crazy or wrong
but i have a passion for sharks and seeing that really ruined my day.

so i ask you,
is anyone else cheesed off about this?

Are you implying that they don't have room for 25 feet of shark once they are all full grown?

...

Seriously though.. this is quite sad. One would be bad enough.

Meh proportions are probably about the same as most of the fish in a lot of tanks??

you do make a good point wes, but you have to think alot of fish we have in smaller tanks now adays like gobies and such wouldn't cover as much ground as a shark would.

the sharks have only been there like a month or so and they already have a circle route they keep doing. like yeah a tang would go a far ways in the ocean, but the difference between a shark and a tang is the sharks are about 10 pounds of almost pure muscle, and go thousands of miles at a time, while tangs tend to hang around the same large radius

lol, i know there's some kinda stupid points in there but i just really feel for these sharks

Yeah I was in there Thursday checking things out. The sharks reminded me of the old old cages at the zoo (I'm really dating myself:mrgreen:!). Seeing the sharks going around and around in the same pattern is like watching a lion or tiger pacing back and forth isn't it?

I'm hoping the deceased fish are out by now? When I was in there were quite a few casualties in both the SW and FW tanks.:sad:

i didn't see any deceased fish today, but god they need better staff.
all it was was teenagers who don't know nothing, and like 1 or 2 older people who were kind of annoying.
some of the fish were looking a bit grim though, and some of their SW tanks were looking overstocked

you are so right, it is like the lions and tigers

MMmm, yeah the sharks will forever be a problem for BA's...

Watch the reviews/critiques; we know how much the mods love those :) Give them some time, Christian has been one of the most active members (and president for what seems like ever) of the CAS, he is a true hobbiest at heart. Could be interesting to see how things develop.

My .02

Andy

I think once they beat the MASSIVE flat worm problem and get the algae under control it'll be an impressive place. There is potential...

Yeah..(snicker), sorry. I've been to a lot of big als throughout canada and well, maybe a few are well done, but they suffer from the inevitable problems that chain stores suffer from. Most of the time the franchisee is powerless to prevent.....

how big can a shark get befor I have to upgrade my 27 gal tank?

Steve

lolz.
but yeah, most chain stores end up terrible.
i just think they really need better choices of sharks.
like they could have atleast gone for a bamboo shark

but in there defence, the idea of a display tank is to have lots of movment, they have done this, the bamboo would just sit around

not realy much differance in what they have done as compared to thoes of us who keep anthias in a tank smaller than 90 gal.

Steve

yes but they could have gone for some other type of fish, couldn't they?

and its true, you could compare it to that, but right now im mad at big als, so i'll be mad at the anthias people later :p

Nothing beats the thrill of seeing a shark!!!!!! o my...... :razz::razz:

Well seriously now. They bought the sharks to bring people in and be like "ohhhhhh sharks, so coo l!!!!!!!!!!!".

When you first saw them in the tank, you probably watched them and thought thats cool. Then your aquarist brain kicked in and said this is wrong. I bet you most the people that go in there dont even have the thought of " oh my those sharks are gonna get huge and I feel bad for them". Hell, they probably have people just coming into the store to see the sharks. Its good business smarts on them. Get people in the store, maybe they will think fish are 'cool', and then they spend allllll of their money.:lol:


Oh and PS.

If you want to be mad at big als about the sharks. You should watch the documentary on shark finning. Then you may be mad for other reasons.....If your curious and have the stomach for the cruelty just youtube "shark finning".

I only go to big al's if i really have to. I was in there this week and i hate going there. Just like any chain stores product must be shipped in large numbers to decrease costs of shipping. Which means more profit. true from a business side of it, yes this is smart but with certain type of business's this should be over looked and quality should mean more than quantity. That is how a business in salt water survives. Someone i know told me that no matter how bad you feel, back off because not saving one might prevent the deaths of others.

I am HIGHLY against keeping sharks unless its at an aquarium for public viewing. That tank is to small. The one thing it will do is stunt their growth but still its an attraction. the fact that you can just walk in and see sharks is great for most people. For a diver like myself i still believe that they should remain in the wild.

That being said, i can bet that 90 percent of the people in hobby have large fish housed in tanks to small for that species. When it comes to tangs, surgeons, and large angels they get huge. A fully grown queen angel is massive and there are only a hand full of people on this forum that I would say have the tank to properly keep these guys. Hell in my 60 gal i am only planning on having a pair of tomato's, my watchmans and some six line wrasses cause i am agains over crowding.

lol ok maybe i should stop because i probably will just keep ranting till i have a novel published

well said lorenzo.

i really didn't have much purpose for going in there exept for i wanted to see the finished product and i was at coco brooks :P

Proportions can't be judged when comparing a small fish to a very large fish. You can't even compare proportions when speaking of our tank reefs. A Panda Goby at 1" is quite happy in a 2 gallon tank (twice the size of it's length or 1/2" per gallon), but a 14" Sailfin Tang is NOT happy in a 28 gallon tank (twice the size of it's length or 1/2" per gallon). Proportions can only be used to compare very similar sized fish. In fact, a 14" Sailfin Tang wouldn't be particularly happy in a tank that is any smaller than 240g (some people would argue this), and that is over 17x the length of the fish and 0.05" per gallon.

By proportions I meant ideal swimming lengths compared to tank length.... which is not necessarily related to fish size or your 1/2" per gallon relation which is not at all what I meant by "proportions".

But you kind of made my point for me... how much swimming room do tangs ideally need and what size of tanks are they often crammed in? Looks like a lot of people have no problem putting them in a 4' tank from a recent thread

http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=47168

but you say ideally some should be in 8' tanks.

So yeah Big Als tank isn't ideal and it would be nice if it was twice as long but at the end of the day they're just doing the same thing that 95% of other people in the hobby are doing.

I'm not saying it's the best thing in the world but it just part of the hobby. You want something but maybe you don't want to have a tank that big.... so you push the limits.

Meh

I agree that Big Al's shark feeding frenzy is somewhat unnecessary.

There are a number of people out there that think our whole hobby falls into the same discussion. They believe that all of the creatures we put into our tanks belong in the wild. We are all on a slippery slope and to be highly critical of Big Al's is a bit hypocritical.

It is a shame that Big A's has decided to use sharks as a means to entice customers into their store. I for one think that a tank of that size with hundreds of smaller fish built more like an actual reef is more spectacular. Tangs, Triggers, Angels and Damsels etc small medium and large.

Tom R

Yeah in a lot of ways it'd be way cooler right full of other fish.... prob cheaper just to grab 3 sharks??

I think I know what you mean by proportion. If we start with a base that is a one inch fish in 2 gallons of water, the same fish at two inches would be 8 times bigger (8x more volume) because we are talking about 3D space so the fish would be twice as long and twice as wide and twice as deep. Therefore, the space must also be twice as long, twice as wide, and twice as deep or just 8x bigger. So to keep the same proportions as you are talking about, a 2 inch fish would need to be in a 16 gallon tank in order for the proportions to be the same as the environment of the 1" fish in 2 gallons of water.

I also don't like using inch of fish per gallon examples since that is a one dimensional calculation using only length of fish to determine volume (3 dimensional) of water needed.

The BA in Edmonton isn't to bad for buying a fish most of the time if you take the time to choose carefully. The mysis they sell for fairly cheep so we pick that up there, other things are kinda pricey but sometimes you can find some really good deals. I know many people show up there on boxing day :biggrin:

As for the shark tank, at 2000g I guess it's small for sharks, however it is cool to see. IMO it's not much different then keeping tangs in 90g or smaller tanks. I also know that one of the sharks in the shark tank in Edmonton was donated by my friend (before she realized how fast sharks grow) when it quickly (from an egg to about a foot long in about six months) outgrew her tank. Thankfully BA was willing to take it (her tank was a 90g) I'd like to think that at least it's better off in the 2000g tank. Obviously in the wild is the best place for sharks, but if they are going to be kept in a tank, then at least it's a fairly big one.

I used the inch of fish per gallon "rule" to show how horribly flawed it is. It irks the heck out of me when people use that "rule"...same as the ole watts per gallon. There are way too many factors to take into consideration.

A 14" Sailfin Tang sure needs a whole lot more space than a 14" Snowflake Eel. Heck, a 36" Snowflake Eel needs less space than a 14" Sailfin Tang.

I do agree that most people cram fish that are too big into their tanks which are too small.

Ok, that's fine. Just pointing out that superduperwesman was probably talking about 3D space and not 1D space when he mentioned proportions and the inch of fish per gallon rule is a rule where a 1D object is mapped into 3D space. So when he said proportion, he didn't mean that 1" fish in 2 gallons is the same proportion as 14" fish in 28 gallons.

I'm just saying it's not ideal but the majority of fish tanks don't provide and ideal habitat for a lot of fish that people keep... myself included. Prob more of an issue b/c the sharks are bigger... if they die it seems a lot worse than a tang dying

Why is it worse because they are bigger? This thread is hypocritical, as stated in another post many people think the same of us for keeping any fish. I understand why they chose sharks, and they are in business to make as much money as possible. A tank full of smaller fish may seem cooler to a more serious hobbyist but there is no way it would beat the WOW factor of sharks, your average customer would be much more drawn to sharks. Especially kids. Big Als is OK with me, sure they have problems, but who doesn't.

Prob just a mental thing?? The bigger something is the worse it seems. Some one stomps on a bug it's no big deal.... stomp on a cat and ur in trouble

LOL... I just pictured someone chasing a cat around trying to stomp it. There is no doubt that it's a mental thing...

You should come hang out at my place tonight when my two cats start chasing each other around at 2am after sleeping all day. Super-Soaker and lots of running.