To quote Christy: "Actually the fish remains breathing even while its cells and blood are forming ice crystals"

That is what I believe happens with the freezer method, though I have no scientific proof to back it up. Oxygen depletion in the water as it freezes may also make the crab suffer, though, again no scientific proof on that either. And because I also believe a creature as primitive as a crab still has some sort of way to feel pain, the crab would suffer.

As for snakes, I happen to own one and know a little bit about them, and they're very different from tropical ocean-dwelling crabs :rolleyes:

Yes, snakes get cold at night and warm themselves during the day with no harm done. But they seek places where they will keep the warmest at night, even though at night their bodies do cool, sometimes considerably cooler than during the day.

But you're rarely going to find a snake that lives in a place that freezes, except a few species in the Alberta badlands and those that live in the BC interior and other such northern places that experience freezing winter temps. They most likely seek deep hiding places where they can hibernate without freezing. Either that, or they can actually freeze with no harm done, though I somehow doubt the latter. These particular snakes would be the exception to the rule as most snakes live is pretty warm climates where winter or nighttime temps do not freeze.

Then there are certain species of frogs that dig themselves into the mud and freeze during the winter, then come back to life in the spring thaw to look for mates before the insect populations return. Actually saw this on HGTV's "Secret World of Gardens" the other day.

To sum up, I don't think comparing snakes, frogs or whatever, to tropical crabs is a way to gain points in the discussion of using the freezer killing method. Each creature is different in habitat, and how it lives and dies in that habitat.

I'd still never freeze a tropical animal to kill it. Never, never, never. Even though the rock method makes the death up close and personal, and is sickening to do for the human (me, to be precise), that is the only way I will ever kill any mobile critter from our reefs.

I will bet you did not know that houseflies freeze solid during the winter, and happily come back to life when it warms up. A couple of years ago I picked up some flies that looked frozen, and put them in a jar. When I brought the jar indoors, the flies came back to life. :eek: :eek:

Nope, didn't know that one.

Did you know that there are vents deep in the ocean that spew the hottest, foulest stuff from beneath the earth's crust that have bacteria feeding off the very hot, very foul stuff? I wonder how scientists get samples of these bacteria when the area is so hot :eek: Heck, I wonder about how scientists find out about all kinds of strange things :question: :question: :question:

actually now that i think about it that sounds right, because i have to monitor my turtle's hot rock temperature because if it malfunctions and gets too hot, she won't be able to tell and will sit on it while it burns her.

bob just how much time do you have on your hands? :razz:

ROTFLMAO :exclaim: :exclaim:

Actually, that was the kid in me laughing at your little kid in you razzing the little kid in Bob with his flies :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Actually I had a lot of time on my hands. This was when we were building the Caroline Gas plant. I was in charge of the yard where we stored our electrical supplies. There was a big tent where the lights were stored. That is where I found the flies, and my investigative curiosity was aroused. :razz: :razz:

I don't know if she wouldn't be able to tell. I think it's more like the hot rock is the only known warm spot in her house, so she stays there even if it gets too warm.

They sell those hot rock things for snakes too. But the book I have about ball pythons, which is the kind of snake we have, says to stay away from hot rocks completely. Better to use a heat lamp with a built in temp control sliding thingamajig, or an under tank heating sheet. With the heat lamp, in a large enough living area, the snake or whatever, can choose the place it wants to be whether it's right under the lamp or just off to the side where it's slightly cooler, or not under it at all.

We have both lamp and under tank heaters for our snake. He prefers the heat lamp and often curls up in the shade of a fake plant to be slightly cooler, and probably to be hidden like snakes like to do.

provided it was actually a mithrax, i would have put him into one of the other tanks and waited to see if he ate anything in there. people buy these guys to take care of bubble algae....

Yup, put him in the 2.5 gal to see what he'd do in there. That night just before going to bed, thought I'd check the 2.5 to see what the crab was up to. There he was dining on our star polyps :evil: He went directly into an old, clean yogurt container in some tank water.

For the next few days, I woudn't have had the opportunity to take him to the AI unless I took him with me on my appointments all out in the west end :eek: Heck I coulda tried the freezer method on him with the cold spell we had that week by just leaving him in the car while I went on my appointed rounds :eek: :eek: Instead, I whacked him to get his and my misery over with asap :cry: