Another thing that just hit me is that a lot of times that these shops will take women for granted, and add a few things on too. I have seen that first hand too. It happened to my wife with her car, when we were first dating. She took her car into a shop to get serviced and the guys said i will do this and that. So I knew that some of the stuff wasn’t done. Like the coolant, windshield washer fluid, JUST adding water and charging her for a bottle, stupid stuff like that, knowing that she would never look under the hood. Man Father always taught me to spray paint the oil plug to test other shops so i did that too. and guess what they didn’t even change the oil after saying that they did..

So after that they charged her over 300 dollars, she paid it came home crying and told me that the car wasn’t even touched on some things, she checked the oil and it was black not somewhat clear. The water in windshield container was all water. So needless to sya i went up there for a drive. and i went to talk to the manager. then showed him the receipt and ask if he could put the car up on the hoist, so i can show him the oil that has not been changed, he laughed ,then i told him that Ok i will prove that your guys are ripping people off and will see you in court.
The manager says i will humour you then put it up on the hoist.
any ways guess what happened next. The manager said oh we spray paint our plugs to ensure that they don’t come off.

YA whatever, I told him and then said I will see you in court and told him that is ok i have pictures of it all see you in court. needless to say the shop was closed from other complaints and the manager was fined and had to pay for my court time and we got our money back...

That is why I don’t trust people when they work on my car or the wife's car. I watch...

Ok, Ok, I agree with one but not the other, we are grease monkeys plain and simple, I think we actually need less skill to be a good Mechanic than we did 30 years ago, but we do need more expensive equipment which tells us what is wrong.

as for what dealerships charge and anyone who uses book value, you are going to get ripped off in >85% of the cases. A good example of this is when my truck got ripped off I got it back in less than good shape, I had two injectors gone (diesel truck) and I was on a course so I didn't have time to do them myself so I sent it to ford. Well they charged 1400.00 for two re manufactured injectors (who said they don't make money off parts) and 1000.00 for labor. well a week later I had another injector go, so instead of playing chase the injectors I decided to replace them all. I bought 8 injectors out of the US for 1300.00 for remans (less than the price of two from ford) and it took me a grand total of 3 hours start to finish to do the removal and installation, hmm ford is charging over 300/hour now?

I have a friend who has a shop here in town, just him as he can't find a deicent mechanic to hire. he charges 60 bucks an hour and doesn't charge if he is not actually working on the car, where dealers will charge even if they can't fix the problem. this is the biggest complaint I have as I took my old truck in about 3 years ago, it would shut off when you try start it intermittently. they charged me 2 hours labor because every 15 min they sent a guy out to start it and see what it did and they couldn't get it to do it. More than a little upset I took it home, looked on the Internet for 5 min and found the problem and fixed it in 10 min (cleaning the IAC) you would think a dealership or a mechanic would be able to figure out a very common problem in that year of vehicle.

I usually work on a lot older stuff myself, but I look forward to new stuff as with all the computers and stuff it is so much simpler to find out what is wrong, and only have a few extra wires to unplug to get at anything. Heck with the computer programs out there now you can do anything at home a shop can do, if you have the tools to do it and like getting scraped knuckles and such :mrgreen:

Steve

Quote:

Another thing that just hit me is that a lot of times that these shops will take women for granted, and add a few things on too. I have seen that first hand too. It happened to my wife with her car, when we were first dating. She took her car into a shop to get serviced and the guys said i will do this and that. So I knew that some of the stuff wasn’t done. Like the coolant, windshield washer fluid, JUST adding water and charging her for a bottle, stupid stuff like that, knowing that she would never look under the hood. Man Father always taught me to spray paint the oil plug to test other shops so i did that too. and guess what they didn’t even change the oil after saying that they did.. So after that they charged her over 300 dollars, she paid it came home crying and told me that the car wasn’t even touched on some things, she checked the oil and it was black not somewhat clear. The water in windshield container was all water. So needless to sya i went up there for a drive. and i went to talk to the manager. then showed him the receipt and ask if he could put the car up on the hoist, so i can show him the oil that has not been changed, he laughed ,then i told him that Ok i will prove that your guys are ripping people off and will see you in court. The manager says i will humour you then put it up on the hoist. any ways guess what happened next. The manager said oh we spray paint our plugs to ensure that they don’t come off. YA whatever, I told him and then said I will see you in court and told him that is ok i have pictures of it all see you in court. needless to say the shop was closed from other complaints and the manager was fined and had to pay for my court time and we got our money back... That is why I don’t trust people when they work on my car or the wife's car. I watch...

Sounds like you have had a bad experience, however 60% of my customers are female, a trend that is more common in the industry today.
If we put a part in, we always keep it for the customer. The majority of people look at it and say yup, throw it away, but I always give them the option if they want their old parts. I will be the first to admit that there are some real lousy shops out there and fortunately most dont last long. I think that is the case with most professions, lousy plumbers, lawyers, dr's, etc, etc. but to condemn a whole industry due to a poor experience is not right. I have a great lawyer that works for me, I love my doctor, and have some great professionals that work for me when I need them. I also have a great crew at work, that included weeding out some questionable staff from the early years. Any business has a growing period and as this is a human industry there are errors, how any individual or corporation deals with their errors is what defines them as good or bad. Just look at whats happening with banks, automotive companies{the big three] in particular. as well as with the economy. I have a motto at my shop..." If you like what we do, tell your friends, if you don't like what we do, Tell Me!" I have always believed in providing people with the same service that I expect to get. You gave a manager a chance to correct a mistake and he blew it. Not all people would. The unfortunate truth in most industries is that most people dont' complain..they just don't come back. I have not advertised in 3 years and my shop is always busy, I stress...always busy. I get all my customers from word of mouth and usually have a strong family connection..if the parents come in, the kids come in and so on. I hope you find a good shop and regain some faith in some industries...

Grease Monkey's?? My guys can get dirty, but they still wear gloves and use a seat cover and floor mat..sure you are bound to get oil and grease on us from time to time but that is like saying all a doctor does is stick his hands in blood all day. as for the less skill part, try tracing a ground fault in an electrical system, or finding a voltage drop in a circuit in any vehicle. If you think that your code reader is going to show you the problem you are sadly mistaken. Diagnostic labour can be the most trouble when working on any vehicle, sure sometimes it is easier, but how many back-yarders have a $10,000 scan tool with gas analyzer, let alone the hoists and other specialized tools that you need to do some jobs. Nevermind the fact that before I bought my shop I had over $50,000 in hand tools that I puchased and due to stupid government regulations I cant write virtually any of it off. Again it boiled down to the skills of the individual. You may have a good mechanic that charges you $60 per hour. Better hope his insurance is good, see what happens if he makes a mistake and I will bet he does sometimes, are you covered?? As for cleaning the IAC did he address what caused it to become contaminated, did he suggest a decarbonization or an injector flush? Did he service the air box and clean the tubing to your throttle body? I am not going to get into a finger pointing match with any other techs, but sometimes you get what you pay for. There are some real quality shops, and dealerships out there and they have the right to be paid for their services. There are some not so great shops and dealerships out there as well, and yes, I would like to see them close up their doors. But your statement about having to know less nowadays is misinformed.

Good point, I guess a lot of it goes towards parts and everyones salary. BTW I don't have skid plates.

Just a word of caution from one of your other posts... running your vehicle in full 4x4 when on dry pavement or even wet pavement with decent grip as well as driving in 4x4 at speeds over about 80km/hr will damage the system.

Big agreement there...:biggrin:

When there is no snow on the road I take it out of 4x4 but as long as there is snow on the road it stays in 4x4. Crashed on a bridge (which was pretty scary, luckily no one was hurt, just the front bumper was damaged) a few years ago from icy conditions which might not of happened if it had been in 4x4. I don't do much highway driving so it's not very often I drive over 80km.

That's not entirely true with Jeep 4-wheel systems. NV231 (Command Trac) only has 4-hi part time, which is no good for pavement (2004 Liberty most likely has). There is the NV242 (Select Trac) which has part time, and full-time 4-hi .. Full-time 4-HI was designed for pavement 4x4 all-time.

Personally I think the labour charge seems high, but if they were draining your t-case and noticed excessive metal flakes (could be from high 4x4 usage). They decided to crack it open, along with both front and rear diffs to check for mechanical issues. Just speculation, but I know personally jeep 4-wheel systems can be troublesome :) (PS: I love my jeep quadratrac system in the snow! )

The NV244 works fine in my Dakota, 100KPH on the highway:D I do take it out when bare roads. But if theres compact/ice in sections, it wont bind the drivetrain.