Yep thats right, only hiccup is with aquabee themselves, they are very non communincative, we are still working with them but its a slow process. We will likely use them for return pump distribution only to be honest.

Eheim - too expensive for a skimmer pump

Atman - great pump but we want to go with a euro flavour

Sicce - You are right and that is why I stated at the start we would not be using the old generation in fact they are no longer made. The New line is PSK600 PSK1000 and PSK1200

we are hoping to kit the Skimz leopard with the sicce 1200 depending on power. The Askoll puts the skimmer out of price point current expectations.

If the new gen of Sicce pumps are better than the last (I don't have any issues with my PSK2500 though) then I see no reason why not to use them. You would be starting with a foot in the grave though, and it will take some time for people to get the yucky taste out of their mouth that the old Sicce pumps deposited. If I were designing a new skimmer I would not use a pump that has a bad reputation because that's not very smart business imo. For that reason, the Atman is probably a better choice from business perspective. Going for a "Euro flavor" on a cheap skimmer seems kinda silly to me.

Either way, I'm interested to see what you guys come up with. I doubt I will be in the market for a new skimmer anytime in the foreseeable future though.

Valid point, however in this case we are not bound to anyone we have nothing to gain to support one particular pump manufacturer. So we go by case history of the pump we are looking at and this range of pumps has no documented issues and they are not new on the block.

We also go by who else is using them, and the spread is quite wide right now. Also taken into account is being aware what the past issues may have been and what has been done about that, Aqua bee, eden and others all suffered the same flaw, the use of rubber bearings, most now have switched to ceramic and molybdenum rotors including Sicce.

Yeah, I understand that the pumps are better now, but I'm also the type that researches things. I have nothing against Sicce pumps. I know a lot of people that don't have an open mind about Sicce pumps though. Put up a poll on these forums, "Would you buy a skimmer with a Sicce PSK1200 pump?" I betcha there will be more "no" than "yes", and that means using that pump would be poor market planning.

I don't understand what you mean about "nothing to gain by supporting one pump or the other". Aren't you designing the skimmer for profit? Would more sales not benefit you?

I would get the same answer with aqua bee also

What i mean is, I am not bound to any pump manufacturer so i can look at all pumps with an open mind just as a hobbyist would.

I do not see low sales for other skimmers using these pumps but I do see low uptake of manufacturers using aqua bee.

as with everything new we do, before it goes to market we allow canreefers to field trial them also. We are dedicating this to the Canadian market so your insight is paramount, however we also have to be aware of cost that you all wish to pay and also availability of pumps that fall within everyones now very low price point expectations. if everyone and I mean the majority are willing to pay above $500 for a 150 gallon capable skimmer we would have lots more choice, but in the past 2 years you have all voted you want that size skimmer for less than $300 sometimes less than $250

Economy of products and what you all are now willing to pay dictates what features we can and can not use.

We wanted to go with Askoll for the leopard as it was designed for but the price point would have put it in territory of more marketed names, it would have been a too tough sell, and then no, we would not of made any money. Thats not saying however the buyer can not add the Askoll later if they so choose.

Mike with this all being said, I know that you are going to choose the right pump. Because in the end its the pump that makes the skimmer.... And the other things assist like easier cleaning ability, quiet, LPH of air, compact. Maybe when thinking about the skimmer we also need a pump that is able to handle the different levels of water in different sumps. IE with the SWC skimmer the 160 Cone a amazing little skimmer it runs at 7 -11" and there really isnt any difference in settings which is really good IME /and IMO.
But what if Mike, we think about not only compact but Girth with the ATI bubble master 250 the body is 8 " or 10 " and the neck is made to a whooping 6 " for easy wipping and a more fat area neck. Like the H&S skimmer.

This is causing the pump not to push the water harder but allowing the contact time to be in the body longer for which what we want and allowing the nutrients to make its way up the neck naturally instead of forcing the bubbles up causing less effectiveenss skimate.

This is why we are keeping with the skimz body with a few tiny mods as it is very fexible in terms of depth and has a small footprint. I also like the way the skimmer collection cup connects.

The body quality blows pretty much anything else out the water also.

Take into account also BM are now OEM for so many skimmers on the market, its crazy, all fighting over what is the best colour to put to their "new skimmer"

I agree with this 100% I have the ATI 200 and the width of the head and short stocky design allow lots of flow through the skimmer while still allowing a great deal of water/air contact time. Very easy to clean, I can do the whole thing without touching the skimmer cup by sticking my faucet inside the neck and spinning.

Also brings the next issue, Pumps. The ATI uses the sicce 2500's, if the new sicce's have the same startup issues it would be very beneficial to spend a bit more on the better aquabee pump. I know in reefing "spend a little more for better" is common, but i'm a very cheap bastard who DIY's most stuff to save a penny, and I even agree it's better to spend the money on a better pump. My skimmer is now set to "lockout" after a power out, I don't even try to turn it on when everything comes back on. I only restart it manually because I know that it can not start by itself. It's beyond the "blow into the hose" not starting up, I have to take off the shroud and spin start it. It's been this way for a long time, very clean etc, the red devil pinwheel has made the startups go from 50/50 to imposssible, but made the skimmer far more effective.

I have said this before a few times in this thread we are not using the sicce 2500 it is not even available.