What do you mean Brad? What do I think about your cyanobacteria experiment or what do I think about trading frags that are possible carriers of a potential pest? I have no idea about the former, sounds interesting though, and good luck; and on the latter, well I guess I would have to say "caveat emptor". How much damage are the bugs actually doing? Do they destroy the corals or are they more of just a visual nuisance?

If you're asking me if I would be willing to "chance it" on a trade for a coral that I knew was affected, the answer is "I don't know." It would depend, I suppose, on how badly I wanted the coral in question and if I felt I could or could not get it elsewhere. I like to keep an open mind; if I felt I could try to deal with the problem with iodine dips and a QT regimen or whatever then I might indeed chance it. If I felt it was a carrier of something that could potentially wipe out all my SPS, well then I would probably choose prudence and say "sorry" because there's just far too much invested in the setup as it stands, and since, as it is, there are so many things that can come along and devastate things (ie. heat spikes, catastropic equipment failure, etc.), I would probably ask myself why I would be keen to embrace yet another risk variable of that nature.

As it is with the bugs in question, well, I don't know how bad they are (I'm not disputing that they're bad, I'm merely admitting ignorance on the issue). So I would have to say, I would probably make a lot of observations and see what effect they're having, and maybe then read up the other threads, and then make a judgment call.

But like I said, I try to keep an open mind. I'm willing to live with things if they are not disrupting the peace.

But, OTOH, there are things wrong in the tank that make me miserable, and they're my own fault because I was too promiscuous about what I was taking in. For example I have caulerpa everywhere in my main display. If I don't actively prune it out every week, it profilerates and chokes out corals. I have some growing on a lavender M.cap, and the caulerpa does physical damage to the coral every once in a while. I try to remove it off the coral but it seems I can't get 100% of it, the root tendrils or whatever stay behind and grow again to do yet more damage. It's at the point where I have decided to admit defeat, and frag the coral. There's no longer any hope for the main colony, there is simply too much tissue recession. The frags might make it, however. In the end, I have nobody to blame for this but myself. I put that caulerpa into my tank, thinking, "oh heck I can keep it pruned back and it won't bother anyone." (Wrong!!!) So I guess my lesson learned here is that, indeed, if you're not willing to tear down a tank to deal with a problem that is causing you misery, then indeed you need to be rather picky and choosy about what you put into said tank.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I'd never trade with you (if that is what you're asking me). Every time I see pictures of your setup, I think, "Dang, I wish my tank looked half as nice as that." Red bugs or no, your setup is still nicer than my own.

Anyways enough rambing I need to get back to work before someone discovers I'm just pretending to be working.... :wink:

Brad, I'd take a frag no problem, but it has more to do with my attitude towards reefkeeping than any rules about pests. You're never going to get a sterile piece of LR, so it's a pretty good bet that sooner or later something undesirable is going to end up in your tank, no matter what precautions you take.
The best approach, IMO, is to observe whatever shows up in your tank and learn about it - what it eats, what kills it, what makes it multiply, ect.
The ocean isn't overrun with flatworms or red bugs, so if our systems are, we need to figure out how the limitations of our reef setups are allowing that to happen.

(I'm sure that helps you a lot........ :razz:)

Mitch

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Mitch, that does help a lot. I'm just curious on people's attitudes regarding accepting a potential pest on a frag. I would have guessed people would not take the chance, but that has not been my experience.
Your answer is exactly what I'm looking for....yes, no, or maybe, why or why not.

Tony, the cyano topic crept in here. The thread is about accepting frags that "may" introduce acro bugs to your system. So far, nobody has given it a second thought when getting frags from me.

I certainly wouldn't give it a second thought if I thought I was getting a piece of a really nice/coveted coral... and that it looked like the parent was none the worse for it...

It certainly didn't bother me to get those cool frags from you Brad :biggrin: I brought them home, dipped them and QT'd them for a bit.

Heck, I even brought home a flatworm rock once for the heck of it. They never survived in my system.

There was a reason for this, right?? :biggrin:

Brad

I would certainly take a frag from you, but I also own a microscope so I can see them and have the facilities for quarantine.

The overall health of the mother colony is extremely important in accepting a frag or offering a frag for sale or trade. I know you are not offering frags from "dying" colonies so the impact on a captive enviornment can be easily monitored.

But the fact is, these are almost, except in the stage of a major infestation invisible to the human eye.

I understand Ron Smimek is doing some studies and hopefully a full understanding of these will be forth coming in the near future.

Anyways, only my opinion but I have bought and sold a few frags.



Wendell

Wendell, it will be interesting to hear Ron's thoughts after studying them, althogh I had no idea he had given them more than a glance.

As far as seeing them, a handheld magnifying glass will do the trick. And I have confirmed under a scope that iodine does kill them and remove them from frags. Still, I would expect people to be more cautious about accepting strange frags.

And I'm not sure that the mother colony is a good example, since a frag is smaller and under additional stress from fragging. I also have some colonies that I believe are not doing as well as they could, due to these bugs.

Keep the opinions coming folks!!

I droped off a frag for Mike to look at at the Uvic facility today... Will be interesting to see what he finds with a good microscope..

At first, I saw no negative effects from the bugs, but I am now seeing serious loss of zoox on my heavily infested colony. I ahve also lost a small frag of which I blame on the bugs.


Brad, I hope you have some success with the little experemint.. I want these buggers out..