The changes I've made in my system the past few months have drastically lowered my need for hermits and the like. I have to actively feed the little buggers I still have in there. Even with a frogfish living in the fuge and dumping god knows how much protein based waste into the water from his feeders.

Things like improving flow patterns, a good skimmer setup wet and using stuff like macro algae and zoanthids to suck nutrients out of the water seem to make the difference. In comparison my other nano reef with the sand bed and the bio filter still has a bit of algae going. It reminds me more of my puffer tank where nitrate and phosphate are always a problem due to the food they eat.

As much as I used to argue that Albert was advocating an unnecessarily stringent BB / Berlin style I've found it really works. I even had an appropriate sized magnet cleaner ordered into work for me but I'm finding that I just don't need the thing now.

*fanfare please*

... Anyway, Matt, your best bet is to probably just grab yourself an emerald crab or two. As far as traditional cleaners goes, I'd skimp on stocking them unless you really had an overblown diatom problem. I'm going to recommend what I tell all the other new reefer-heads starting out, "add 4-6 Trochus or Cerith snails, you can always get more later if you feel you need them." Most people don't get more.

But yeah, for people who keep a shallow sand bed at the bottom of their tanks, I suspect the same principles apply. You could probably skimp on regular crabs and snails and instead opt for more effective detrivores such as small conches, certain brittle stars and possibly a tiger tail (assuming your bed has enough surface area to support one). All that aside, none of these guys have anything on a gravel vac used weekly. Go ahead, try it, take a gravel vac to your sand for five minutes. $10 says it will put your cucumbers to shame :D

I think cleaning crew depends on fish stocking personally.

:mrgreen:

How's 14 medium (3-5") fish in a 150 gallon fed twice times a day PLUS massive daily zooplankton feedings for the coral? All this with no mechanical filtration and a cruddy Coralife Super Skimmer?

how often are you doing water changes and how much, what lighting is on the tank, how often do you vaccume your sand and clean the glass, and so on and so on. all this stuff plays a part in how effective a cleaning crew will be and weather one will even be needed.

Steve

That number of fish in a 150 is not a problem IMO, but you should upgrade your skimmer, and look into adding a fuge and/or UV.

Since adding my fuge, upgrading my skimmer, and adding a UV sterilizer my tank has almost no slime aglae growth on the glass at all, I haven't used my magnet in a long while. In fact my coralline algae growth is more substantial than my green slime on my front glass.

I added these at different times. My skimmer upgrade improved my water quality to allow me to have LPS and SPS successfully, but my softies growth slowed down substantially.

My fuge with various macro algae has out-competed my hair algae in the display with is great.

My UV has cleared up my green slime amazingly well.

lots of reading
 

Who said anything about waiting til the snail is dead?:mrgreen:

Seriously though. IMO, clean up crews are valuable, but its all relative to the rest of the tank inhabitants. For example, in Albert's tank there are a lot of tangs that probably promote tank cleanliness. Additionally, how well cured the live rock is, the amount of flow, size of skimmer and other filtration will all play a role in your waste levels, and thus determining the need for a cleanup crew. Albert's tank has good flitration, no sandbed and excessive compulsive tangs, so snails and hermits are not needed. Although, a peppermint or two could probably be put to good use.:biggrin:

On the topic of crew size, I agree that vendors over estimate the size of crew needed. Several times over the past couple of years I have attempted to elevate the size of my crew to the average standards of most vendors. What has happened every time is that through inter and intraspecific competition I end up with smaller "happier" crew. One that can be effectively sustained in my tank. Yet at any time, no matter the size of my crew, I/ve always had the same amount of algea on my glass, and none on my live rock, this is constant. My tank will sustain no more or less of a clean up crew than sum of its various food sources and territories.

Hope this made some sense, sorry for rambling!

Be careful if you decide to get cerith snails, I bought 3 of them and now have several hundred.

That would be awesome! You could sell or give them away then.

I have bought all kinds of snails, they never seem to multiply for me.

The truth? There's two XM 10k's and a single XM 20k, all in 150 watt flavors; these are supported by two 65 watt actinics and two 65 watt 50/50's. Weekly 5 gallon water changes and a magnet every three to five days.

I've never had problems with algae or nutrients. SPS grow very well (it's the store frag tank) and the water has amazing clarity.

I've considered throwing in a different skimmer since we have all these, now unsellable, Euroreef CS series skimmers lying around, but it'll have to wait until I figure out how much room I have left in the sump once the Zeovit reactor gets in there.

Anyway, I'll let a couple pictures do all the talking:

http://www.cichlids.ca/images/galler...bc10a491a6d64a

Tank as of two weeks ago.

http://www.cichlids.ca/images/galler...bc10a491a6d64a

Tank roughly six months prior (well before I started dosing Zeovit products).

Geez, comparing the two, it becomes painfully obvious how terrible the Coralife 10k 150 watt bulbs are.