I'd say more than half of the people in the hobby aren't ask knowledgeable as some of you experienced and knowledgable people. Saltwater take patience and a thorough understanding of what to do and what not to do.

all too often, 4 months later - people sell their tanks because it looks like crap, and they don't want to commit the time it takes to update it. these are probably the same people who left television raise their children :lol:

another thing - of those that give up, and even those that truck along... probably half of them are cheap.....I can sense people who are cheap and more of a pain in the butt than anything - even on these boards (I'll keep those names to myself)

Kudos to the stores who are patient and spend the time educating newbies. from time to time we stop in at oceanic corals, because that was the store we went to, they helped us out - and I like to return favors, so .... I buy stuff.... even when I don't need to.

aquattro you send ****ed off and grumpy like me. Perhaps we need to have a beer next time I'm in victoria visiting my father :) try not to let them get the better of you

Couldn't agree more...it takes time, product especially if you're using quality test kits, and employee time. I own a small LFS....we were doing it allllll the time for one customer that was totally taking advantage of my staff....and taking advantage of my time and energy with using me to ask about product then buying it used from here or other buy/sell places.....it was a bit much and really drove me crazy...but my staff and myself just want to help people out...sometimes it never pays off.

Not at all, it's just that rude and cheap annoy me, and I get vocal about it at times (like whenever I'm awake).
I get that some people need help in the beginning, and sometimes you want to double check your own readings that don't make sense. But if you're in this hobby, there are things you should own. Test kits are one of them. The LFS doesn't give you free heaters or salt, why are they giving free test kits, one test at a time.

For me, I just can't see myself taking sample water, driving to LFS with my daughters and waiting for the staff to test it...

If I wanna know anything about my tanks ( I have 3 FW and 2 SW), I gotta know now....

this hobby is expensive and I really want to save money (who doesn't?) but this hobby probably isn't for you if you can't spend money on decent test kit...

you can lose a lot more money by not spending small cost on the test kit

My 2cents..

plus it's a good education tool for my 9 yrs old daughter lol

I started off with the standard API when I was FOWLR. Now I have three different test kits for each.....I test twice a month on two kits. They should be close. Only took my water in once and that's when bad stuff was happening and I just couldn't figure it out. Tests are a must even if it's just an API kit. They aren't perfect but it's easy to tell what the bad colors look like. If your going to drop hundreds - thousands in fish and coral in your tank, 50-100 in test kits sounds like a decent investment.

Even though the kits are cheap(ish), why not get the store to do it if they are free? People like free. It's a known fact. Some of the tests are also labour intensive. I can totally see why people would have a store test their water. And for those people, so long as the store facilitates it (with free or cheaper test) they will keep coming for them. And why not? It gets people into the stores where they can talk reef and maybe walk out with some new fish food, a net, that impulse buy fish, new skimmer or that fancy new plasma lighting everyone has been talking about!

Having said that, I have never had a store test my water. I'm too lazy to drive there every time I want a test. Now if I could just get Denny to come to my house to do water tests..

ya so do I, but when I started buying my hardware, they told me to bring in water for monthly samples (which I didn't ) so I can understand why people would do it though.

Steve

one more thing to mention which may clear it up for you Brad, a lot of stores used this as a loss leader (especially freshwater) so they offer a water test which may cost them pennies due to wholesale on a cheep Hagen master test kit, and while they are doing your test kit you are looking around and end up buying something else. the other reason is they get to know your water so they can deny your warranty if the fish dies.

Steve, that's not the true case though, based on comments from LFS owners. They're more afraid to say no in fear that they will lose a customer.
But really, the theme of my rant is not the fear or motives of the LFS, but the hobbyist that feels they get to have a reef tank without buying something that should be considered mandatory equipment to maintain it. I know several people that just feel it's their right to abuse whatever motive the LFS has.

+1. If I had an LFS, for sure I would be trying really hard to help out newbies. That's just good business.

Still remember not that long ago (2010) when I inherited a salt water tank with the house we bought (how I got into this crazy hobby). If it wasn't for the LFS in Langley (Nick at the old Fishworld) I probably would have had a tank crash in short order. And he asked (I never asked him) me to bring in water samples. I think I only did that once or twice, and quickly became self sufficient with my own testing. And yes, I bought a lot of stuff from him (until he went out of business).

I first thought Brad was joking (can't tell with him sometimes) with this thread, but now that it seems to be serious, thought I would give my opinion (again,... haha).

And oh, I do use API for some of my more frequent tests where granularity is not that critical and/or the parameter is consistently at the extreme good side. But I do have the more expensive ones, too, to crosscheck if there is any doubt. Saves a lot of bucks.