I think its just a lack of intensity, at least for me. My colours were fine under my SWC lights but not great spread and just ok growth. Under the new Evergreen, I have more spread and looks like more intense to me but just not right for what ever reason.

I was thinking of adding the Panorama Pro thats on the group buy but sheez already. I have two fixtures now and still cant get it right. Going to hand a 250 halide over my tank soon. :D

I'm also finding that some of my SPS have gone colorless under LEDs... but then some have never looked better.

Most likely in my case it is just neglect :redface: and way too much light. I've never cooked so many corals before.

Crap Milad, couldn't you have referenced a longer thread? :surprise:

The OCW LEDs look interesting, but I'm half way through and I haven't got to the "I added the extra colors to the NW, RB LEDs and I'm totally amazed" posts yet.

Any feedback from people who have actually done this?

[quote=Doug;757609

I was thinking of adding the Panorama Pro thats on the group buy D[/QUOTE]

What group buy is this? Can you please point me to that thread? I talked to a vendor on here and he did not mention any such thing.

Hey Brad, I think if you added 3-400 watt Radiums to the tank it will pump that color right up!!!! ;)

Ya, I was thinkin' the same thing!

Ever since Sanjay Joshi was touting LEDs at MACNA (which was primarily based on super high PAR numbers) I have been tossing around the idea of purchasing some in the spring, but I know you and I have the same taste in lighting and you're turning me off the idea! Sanjay was predicting the future for LEDs will be focused on producing a fuller spectrum, although he did talk a bit about the fact that corals don't actually use the entire full spectrum, so maybe we don't need full spectrum, but rather proper spectrum...???

I have been noticing many people complaining that the new AI Vega uses cool whites instead of neutral whites. I definitely like the color of the Vega over the Sol, but visually the Radions are the nicest imo. I didn't look very closely at the Mitras. I don't think the Radions can even come anywhere near the color of halides or T5s though. I also find LEDs seem harsh on my eyes (and it's not the PAR lol).

I'm really thinking that we still have to wait another 2-3 years to be satisfied with LEDs as the primary source of reef lighting. So, those "10-year 50,000 hour" fixtures you all bought...yeah you're going to want new ones in a few years! :p

This kinda makes me think that we would all just be happy if we started a tank with LEDs rather than switching a tank to LEDs. There are definitely several SPS out there that we generally struggle to keep nice colors, and then think of all the brown SPS that we assume are just brown naturally. Maybe some of these corals that don't do as well as we would like under MH or T5 would be something crazy under LED?

A fine example is when you purchase a wild caught or ocean cultured SPS coral and move it to your tank. Chances are it will look much different in a few weeks under the new lighting. So if natural light vs MH or T5 is so different then maybe MH or T5 vs LED is also very different...who know? Time will tell!

Agreed. I'm actually seriously considering selling mine and going back to MH. I just have to figure out how to manage evaporation/moisture in the house. Some days I'm ok with the light, but other days, it's just not cutting it.

Why don't you sell the SPS you're not happy with? Replace them with something that will be more satisfying. Everything in life is relative...in this case you need to remove the memory of what was. :D

More satisfying than SPS?? That's just silly!! :razz:

No no, just sell the particular colonies you're not satisfied with and replace them with other SPS pieces!!! SILLY!!! :twised:

What he said!

You mean like the large efflo? Nah...

The other is the pink and blue milli. It's a really nice blue milli, I just know it should be half pink. And the pink lemonade is less yellow that it has been in the past. But I'm setting up a 50g grow out tank with radiums, so I may just move them to there.

OCW is basically Deep Red, cool blue and Turquoise
That was introduced a few months before that thread was started. Half way through (about page 60000 billion) the OCW got introduced so instead of doing 3 individual stars, people started just getting the OCW because the way we placed the LEDs and the wavelengths we used, they produce a white light to your eyes and brighten up your tank. hence the "ocean coral white" name.

So what happens with the OCW is your tank gets brighter because some of the wavelengths of the Royals help produce the white and also anything around your tank and in your tank that is orange/red/pink will explode.

remember this Brad

what are you doing with LEDs anyways :mrgreen:

Steve

Have you tried your old halides over your tank to see if you still like them? I think you'll find them a little bland after LEDs.

LEDs are so new, with very little real information for a reference, that it makes it challenging to get them dialed... but that's the fun of it isn't it.

And I still stick with my original quote! Due to evaporation rotting my house, I had to either spend money on HVAC, or switch to LED. I choose the LED. I'm thinking not the right choice :)
Overall, the LED have lots of great options. They're quiet, cool, have ramping ability, and the color given off is very pleasing to view. Most of the corals are growing to fast, and anything with blue or green looks great. Even my pink milli and pink stylo look incredible. Really, out of 100+ colonies, only maybe 4 have changed to a less pleasing color. They just happen to be some of the nicest pieces I have -lol
But, that being said, the Radiums had the color, intensity AND whatever it is that is missing in the LED. Yes, they're hot, noisy (due to fans cooling and bulbs rattling), more costly to run, blah blah....But MH IMO is superior light for SPS corals. I'm sure that if I'd started with LED, I'd never consider changing, but having run Radiums for so long, the LED were a downgrade. I've looked at Vertex fixtures over tanks with their "fuller spectrum" and they suffer the same issues as my Sols. So not really a brand issue, but a technology issue, in that the manufacturers haven't quite got it right yet. I'm sure that will change very soon, as there are a lot of SPS owners that are holding out until they see a true competitor to MH for color production.

Rob, I guarantee I'd still like them, I've loved Radiums for 10 years. :) I actually find the color separation from LED annoying, you can see it on the sand and the corals. I think some higher end units reduce that, but I have not seen a LED not do this, SOL, Radion, or Vertex. This includes DIY units I've seen with tons of LEDs installed.
With the SOLs, there is nothing to dial in. It's blue and white, or some mixture of that combo. The units are missing something that tweaks a particular pigment, not sure if it's red, UV, purple or anything else. Radions affect the corals the same way, so it likely isn't red or green, or maybe it just needs more than is provided.

Don't get me wrong, the LED gives of great light and color, and my blue and purple pieces are all gorgeous, and the ramping for sunrise/sunset is a fab feature. I do really like the lights and would have to seriously consider changing back to MH due to all the good features. I'm probably just going to have to accept that some pieces aren't going to have the color they had. I may be able to supplement with different color spectrum strips, not sure. Some type of T5 addition maybe?
I also have to consider that if I went back to MH, my wife would probably stab me in my sleep, not somewhere I really want to go :razz:

Glad I'm not the only one who finds the colour separation a bit of an issue. Every LED tank I have seen has had this and once I notice it, no matter how nice everything else may be, I get a little disappointed feeling. It's sort of like being in a Star Trek holodeck and thinking everything is nice and perfect in my little fake imaginary world then noticing one of the holo-emitters is on the fritz and you see these little staticy spark things zapping around and in behind you see the black wall of the holodeck itself and you realize "Oh yeah, right. This is not real. Kind of a bummer." With a well done reef tank when you really focus in on it there is this "suspension of disbelief" (it's not just for fiction apparently) where all of the cool technology in the world that is supporting the main cast, is just a supporting player and basically irrelevant so long as it's doing its job - it's what's in the tanks that is the draw for me to this hobby - the rest are just tools to get a job done.

I wonder how the multichip pendents compare though. These still intrigue me. I still would like to try a few and replace one of my Radiums at a time and then run in parallel to see how they stack up. I'm saving my pennies for this at this time, although it probably means I'm pre-empting a possibly more-better investment of a controller (yeah I run everything old skool still) in the meantime. :neutral:

I had no color separation with the LEDs 16" - 18" off the water, or since I removed the optics to reduce the intensity (and moved them down to 6")... but then I don't have sand.

I agree there are some missing spectrums, especially red in my case. I get no algae in the display at all, and almost no slime on the glass. Likely this is also effecting the corals.

I'll let you know what I think after I've added a few of Milads OCW LEDs.

Mine are about 6 inches OWL, and I can see separation in a few corals. Not a big deal. I have no algae either, although I never did. I have a bit of slime these days due to the mass blue clove die off, but that's my own fault.

I've asked him about those as well, I'd be interested in trying something. Not sure what thy are exactly though, haven't read that linked thread yet.

Brad, try raising the Sols up higher. Sols have 70 degree optics, Vegas have 80 degree, and Radions have 130 degree optics. So the Sols and Vegas have to be up higher than Radions to avoid the color separation aka The Disco Effect. :D

Sorry guys. Its just the price reduction I read. For some reason I thought it was reduced with a group buy. I,m still going to purchase one I think.

I tried running both my led fixtures yesterday but just not enough room over my tank for that and they are both blue/white anyways.

Also thinking of Radion

Sols have 70 deg optics? Yikes! 6" is way too low. I had 80 deg and didn't like the look until I was above 14"

At a lower height I found I had "hot spots". Areas on the rocks where a coral would cook, and yet a coral a few inches away would look like it wasn't getting enough light. I took placing a few corals in those spots to convince myself it was actually happening, it seem impossible.

AI says: "How high above the water line should I mount my AI fixture? While mounting height is ultimately dependent upon your personal preference and aesthetic appeal, we would suggest 8-12 inches above the water line as the traditional mounting height. Mounting both higher and lower than the recommended heights can still deliver great growth characteristics; use a PAR meter if you have any questions on the actual light levels your corals are seeing."


I know many people mount them higher than that even...some as high as 24", most seem to like them around 12-14" height from what I've read.

Brad, you think the led,s have lower your evaporation rate that much? Is that in a hood? I have not had halides on my 30g but my 20 seemed to be about the same rate with either the leds or the halide. Mind you it was only a 150w over an open top.

They have a mix of 70/40. Right now they're in my canopy, so no choice on height. I'm working on that. The disco doesn't really get me anymore, I've gotten mostly used to it. But I do plan to try different heights, but have wife imposed restrictions on how that can be done :)

I don't find I really have that issue at all...

Doug, absolutely. I used to have water pouring down my windows, now, nothing. With MH, the lock on my front door rusted right through, I had to replace it as I couldn't get the key in the door.
MH run stupidly hot, I know I've got sunburn from working in the tank for more than 20 minutes. LED give off almost no heat. I also ran fans across the canopy to remove heat, which would certainly help move moisture into the house. No more fans with the LEDs

Oh... Ok I thought you said some of your corrals had lost color. In my case some of my corals lost flesh :sad:

Oh, you got the ones with the 40s in them. That's even worse! :lol: Bah, it's not the wife's tank... :twised:

Agreed. MY tank is in HER livingroom. :razz:

Well, more changed color. If you look at Seacare's banner that scrolls across the top here, you can see a pink with blue milli. I had it like that in my tank for months, until switching to LED. Now's it's a really nice solid blue milli.
and my efflo at the bottom of the tank is duller than it was but that could be intensity related.

Tell her that her room is the KITCHEN!!! :twised::twised::twised: HAHAHAHA

My DIY build uses 3 rows (9 per row) of 10 watt multi chip LEDs spaced about 4 & 1/2 inches apart. Mixture of cool white, white, blue & royal blue. I use no optics & the LEDs are just over 6 inches above the water. I see no disco effect or colour separation with this configuration. Fixture has been up & running since beginning of April this year. I only have a few SPS & they're doing fine, although they're not exactly prize colonies. Switching from MH/T5HO combo doesn't appear to have affected the growth rate or look of my SPS pieces. LPS, softies & other livestock are doing great. No way I would consider going back to the MH/T5 fixture.

If I had it to do again, I might go with fewer, larger multi chip LEDs with optics, hung higher above the tank. Mainly due to simplicity and less wiring etc. I'm certain that the single chip 3 watt LEDs on stars will eventually be phased out & eclipsed by fixtures with the larger multi chips such as those on some Orphek & Kessil models. Multi colour, multi chip LEDs are already available & development is underway on chips that are more specific to reef aquarium needs with the colour mix. Since the different colour LEDs are closely packed together on a single chip, colour separation is virtually eliminated. The biggest drawback at the moment is that a single 100 watt or larger multi chip is pretty costly & if you cook it, you'll be out a few $$$s.

A certain Mr. Wilson who owns a reefing shop in Ontario & posts regularly on RC is at the forefront of this type of development having had a multi chip custom designed for some pendants he built. A tank in his shop is lit with these pendants running large multi colour, multichip LEDs. Says it's a bit too blue for something he'd hang over his tank at home, but apparently it's a look folks are attracted to when they walk into a shop? Below is the photo from his photobucket album.

http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/a...est/file-4.jpg

So yeah, for the patient folks out there, won't be long & more choices for custom colour multi chip high power LED pendants should be hitting the shelves. As mentioned, Orphek, Kessil & several other manufacturers already offer fixtures of this type. Haven't checked the prices lately, but probably in line with the other high end players like EcoTech, AI, et al. Or if you want to tackle a DIY, many of the multi chips are readily avaible on fleabay & other online vendors. That's where I scored all my 10 watters.

No, my room is the kitchen, I prefer she doesn't go in there. Maybe I should move the tank to the kitchen? lol

Brad, I think you should try 3 X 24inch fiji pinks to supplement in between the sols. It will be the most cost effective way. I also need you to come by one day and check out my tank. I bumped the whites to 80% at the peak and 100% for both blues, to be my surprise I am getting more colors out of some of the paler ones. To be honest I love my sols and if I can get the red spectrum covered then they should be fine. you need to come by!!!

Oh that sounds dangerous... frying pan incoming. On the positive side you would never have to worry about Radiums or sps again ;-)

What color is your pink and blue milli? :)

I have mine at 85/100/100, so very close with brighter white. I should be over first week of December. I should stop by :)

Mostly blue with a bit of red....hence the T5 fiji pink.:redface: