Oops. I thought it was the Reef Crystals that were causing your Alk problem. My bad. :(

No worries :lol: it still had the same effect on the rest of the parameters.

i think the overall goal is to just not have a tank riddled with algae and be able to fill it and sustain life , the rest is envy like sheena said.

most people buy a calcium test first...why , because its the easiest one for them to remember when at the store, all 3 need to be gotten right from the start or none are anygood to you except to see where you are, you couldnt add anything because you dont know what the others are.

but most people dont do that, they will buy a calcium test kit and add calcium or some other suppliment at the same time. it goes like that for a bit then the person realizes they need the alk test too .

so they test alk.....this is where most people freak out now, so they start changing salts as its the easiest way for a new person to chaange alk(alk is tricky to understand) .

once this keeps up they start reading that there relationships between the 3 and start back tracking over things theyve already added.....


you can see this is getting a bit crowded and confusing on whats going in and out right??


my opionion is if your goal is for a nice reef , stick to the basic instructions, but if your really want to do the chemistry part you need to log and journal everything, you have to eliminate yourself from alot of the variables, so get good testers, good dosers and good equipment all around, its hard to learn something when the equipment you use is not accurrate.

A log is a very useful tool. No everyone has a perfect memory. And it will show trends or mistakes.

I do log everything. It helps a lot. :) Well, I don't log when I feed. That's just habit by now.

I'm on my second set of the big 3 test kits with the same results
I've seen lots on the web and a few here mention the IO was out of whack going back as far as X-mas

:smile:
I wish my tests were off
Hopefully the next bucket will be better and, if not, I'll be buying some other test kits for reference

The Seachem test kits have a reference sample in them. Maybe someone close to you has some? If not, I could try mailing you some: if I can figure out how best to package it.

Thanks for the offer :smile:
I'll buy the Seachem kits if my next bucket is out of whack and then will be sending the Elos kits off for analysis

You guys had me totally curious as I've never tested my NSW. Checked it this afternoon and my Ca was 330 with an Elos kit.

More helpful if you mention what salt :razz:

LOL, Sorry, I thought the conversation was about the regular IO salt. :)

Fair enough :) 330 is more in line with what I would expect from IO..

Sorry Shelley for all the Hijacking

I've just mixed some IO NSW and will test it tomorrow
I'll grab a couple Seachem kits while I'm out to compare to my Elos ones
I'm not going to waste money on the Seachem Mg kit though ... at least not at this point :wink:
Even though it's not the point of your thread, I'll report here for anyone who's curious

So, I know it hurts you to do big ones but, are you going to do a WC to get your tank back inline ?

No worries about hijacking. It is all relevant.

I got a five gallon water change done today, and I've got another one prepped for tomorrow. The boys (hubby and #1 son) will be around tomorrow, so they can lug the water up the stairs for me. :) Trying to get the water upstairs is pure evil on my knees.

I'm just about to go test ca/Alk/mag.

Ca 300/alk 9.52/mag 1375

I am NOT going nuts! This system tested 350 for calcium 10 hours ago. I must have a calcium sink. I have some really good growers in here, but the growth from my plating monti is really significant. My Hollywood stunner and green birdsnest are two other fast growers.

Could my system really be using up that much calcium in a few hours?

I just tested against the known sample again. The test checks out.

No. My system doesn't even use that in 10 hours, and I've got a lot of coral growth.

im also going to say no , so bring a water sample over here and lets test it against mine. bring your test kit and we will use both yors and mine if you like:)

I think you should be consuming 2.8 degrees dKh for every 20ppm of Ca. I don't know what is going on with your Ca, but something doesn't add up. I am going through about 20grams anhydrous CaCl or about 20-30 ppm Ca in a heavily coral loaded 90G tank (twv of ~100G) per day. 50ppm in 10 hrs and with levels that low... IMO neither your corals nor precipitating Ca would account for that. Perhaps you could calculate how much you expect your Ca to raise based on how much Ca you are adding and your tank volume. You can calculate how much it should go down based on your dKh consumption. Test results that vary from this might need to be double checked?

Quick question for those with really high levels of Ca...what are you using to test salinity? Is it accurate?
My Ca was up around 500 in an old tank for a long time. I was using a swing arm hydrometer that went south and my salt was at 1.036 for months. Ca was way high....just a thought...

Tested my Ca for fun, 450ppm. I can live with that..

Show off.

Edit: I'm picking up the Elos test after work . . . AND the hanna checker. This is going to drive me nuts.

i expected a value near there, i run a good sized Ca Reactor. And the Reefers Best salt is about 420 out of the box.

That's what I consider about perfect.

I'm going to get two tests that agree . . . and if I don't I'm going to Denny's to compare with his test (which is Elos).

It's a bit high, I'd rather it was 420ish, but it's acceptable.

This may not belong in Shelley's post, but ...
And, this is a hella long post :wink:

I currently use IO Sea Salt, and batch # 11257 is being tested here

OK, I thoroughly hate testing :twised:

I just finished 3-1/2 hours of water testing my NSW, DT and RO
I don't want to think about how much test kit money I have just thrown away .....
Plus, after dinner, I still have to store some of this water for J&L to test and do a DT WC

Here's my testing info;

Each time I fouled a test with a partial drop I started over
I lost about 2 Alk, 7 Ca and 3 Mg tests, give or take ...
Plus, each time I got a reading that was outside the norm, I tested again

With the Elos kits I went a step farther than they suggest and rinsed the syringes with test water before taking samples

When adding the powder in the Elos kits, they state it's OK if not all the powder dissolves
With this in mind, I tested once with only shaking the vial after adding the powder, and tested again with the cap on the vial and shook vigorously
There was no measured difference between using/not using the vial cap
To confirm this, I tested the Ca in my NSW 5 times and all readings came in within 10ppt of each other

For reference, I bought both the Seachem Marine pH/Alk and the Seachem Reef Status Ca kits
I will never buy these again and I'm going to return these 2 kits as they are tedious and, IMO, unreliable
I don't want to turn this into a review, but I will say that I use Seachem NH3, NO2 and NO3 and find them easy and reliable
For Alk, Ca and Mg I will stick with Elos

Brad, it's funny you brought this up when you did as I did some more reading last night and checked my refractometer before bedtime;
After 45 secs it gave me 35ppt with the solution

Today, after talking with Jeff @ J&L, I floated the solution in the DT for 1/2hr and again my refractometer is 35ppt with the cal solution

It's safe to assume my tests are @ 1.025, although I only use a BRS ATO refractometer. But, it has been checked against J&L's current one, so it has to be 'close enough'

On to the test results :smile:

19g of NSW @ 79F and 1.025 Sg
Elos;
- Alk 11
- Ca 490, 500, 500
- Mg 1300
Seachem;
- Alk 11
- Ca 475, 475

DT water @ 79F and 1.025 Sg
Elos;
- Alk 7
- Ca 430, 440, 430
- Mg 1550, 1550

RO water @ 72F
Elos; big 3 all test to Zero

You will note my DT water is hi in Mg. That is due to me dosing Mg to eradicate algae
I am still waiting for the Mg to drop
After the effects of my last round of dosing Mg I will not be doing it again anytime soon as it threw the other 2 out of whack

I am now only performing WCs to keep my tank in check and have dosed Alk ONCE ONLY to bring it back to above 7

I feel this info is enough to prove my Instant Ocean Sea Salt is OUT OF WHACK
Go ahead and call me crazy now, will ya :twised:

Getting back to Shelley's original post ....

Check your source water and NSW as well
Do a big WC ( as Brad suggested ), test, test again, and just watch what happens

It took me over a month for my params to come back in to check after I dosed Mg :rolleyes:

I'm taking 2 cups of my newest NSW and 2 cups of raw salt to J&L tomorrow for testing

I'm starting to think there's something wrong with your salt :razz:

My LFS guy was off today, so I wasn't able to get any to test.

At least we're now talking about my Salt being off instead of it being either;

1 - Greg's kits are out of whack
2 - Greg's out of whack

:mrgreen:

Although, I'll admit I'm out of whack sometimes :silly:

As I said, I'll report my findings

Very interesting, Greg.

While the Seachem Reef Status tests are a production (you should see the magnesium test :rolleyes:), I'm curious as to why you feel the Reef Status calcium test is unreliable. It gave you the exact same results twice. Did you do additional tests that did not return similar values? Or, did you foul a number of the test?

I'm impressed with your dedication to this! And yes, your salt is whacked (for IO). It is testing much more like Reef Crystals. And, in that case, I'm wondering why the heck I'm paying for Reef Crystals when the plain IO is returning results like that.

I wasn't able to pick up the Hanna Checker and the Elos Calcium test last night, as I narrowly missed Dave @ Concept. I'll be picking those up tonight. And, I will endeavour to get some numbers that corroborate. Once I have numbers I trust, I'll have a better idea how to approach this.

Did another 10% wc last night . . . and my euphyllia are ****ed! I'll be spying on them with the ip cam today. They all shrunk right up into their skeletons.

I don't know that if it's been stated, IMO I have seen in the pass that when you have CAL, ALk, MAG
the biggest thing is ALK when you mess with that you are opening up a huge can of worms like when Moses parted the RED sea. **** hit the fan. lol
ok back on track.:razz: having high CAl isnt so bad other then its going to reek havoc on your pumps for deposits of Calcuim. Magnesium It seems it taks for ever to raise if you are doing it slowly. look at Dez he went through 5 gals of MAG flakes to get his tank up to normal par levels. that was for 1 month.

So slowly bring your ALk up and the rest will take care of its self with some help from you.

I hope this makes sense.

I use a KAlk reactor for keeping my levels in check however, it wont bring up MAgnesium only CAL and ALK, and then you only have to so MAG top up and if you are doing water changes consistently then your mag should be ok.

My calcium really is that low :(

Just did the tests on the display.

ELOS: 310
Seachem: 300
Hanna Checker: 365 (I may have messed that one up . . . Don't see how it could be that out)

At least nothing is dying, and I know that I really do have a problem.

Will test the new salt water when I get back from buying a better calcium additive to bring it up a bit.

I found the Seachem Reef Ca kit to be unreliable as the testing proceedure uses such a diluted sample that I couldn't make out the colors well enough, and the lines on the reagent syringe are so dammed small that I had trouble reading how much solution I had used. Why can't they make a kit with dripper-style dispensing bottles ???
It did give me the same results 2 times and yes I fouled numerous tests as it was my first time using this style kit
I had Jeff @ J&L try using the Seachem Alk kit and he showed me how to make it work better, although I still find it less user friendly than a dripper bottle is

I am making up some more NSW from the same bucket and will re-test with the Elos and Seachem kits

Now, here's something interesting;

I took in a sample of my NSW and my DT water to J&L
While Andy got the same KH results as I did, the Ca tests were nowhere near the same
We each used both their kit and mine, and we tested both of my water samples
I tested 470 Ca and Andy tested 380-420
It looks like it's coming down to user technique

I've contacted Elos as there is a pictogram in the packaging that shows the reagent bottles being dripped from an angle of approx 45 degrees

I was testing my Ca with the bottles held at an angle for 2 reasons;
One is sometimes the bottle may keep dripping if held vertically and;
Two was because of the images on the card

This may explain why my results are so high as I'm not dispensing the same amount per drop as Andy is when the bottles are held completely vertical

I've PMd LeanneP to ask her what test kits she is using and her testing methods, as well as to ask her if she'd be willling to re-test if she is using Elos kits

I felt very vindicated last night after all my tests
Now I'm feeling kinda sheepish :redface:

Here's Elos' response ...

Thanks for using our products and contacting us. The angle on the illustrated pamphlet is ok but i know what you are describing that it is possible to "chop the drops", if you hold at an angle. The bottles used in the Elos kits are metered drops so it is best to get close to vertical or vertical for best results. Hope this helps and let me know if you have any other questions.
　
　
Jesse S.
(office) 925.600.8020
(toll free)877.373.0105
(fax) 925.600.8917
jesse@elosusa.com
www.elosusa.com
www.facebook.com/elosusa
　

That's something I've not experienced yet
Was your new water mixed well and the same temp etc etc ??

Did you do anything else at the same time ?

I'm becoming so anal that I won't do 2 things at the same time anymore

:razz:

Ya ya, har har har, and "I told you so" :lol:

I'll let you know what I get from the mixed water after I test it tomorrow

There's your vindication right there. I like how she won't say that the diagrams are wrong, but she instructed you to keep them as verticle as possible. :rolleyes:

I did nothing else at the same time. If they were ticked off yesterday, they're super ticked tonight! They opened during the day just fine, so hopefully this will pass.

I picked up Aquavitro Calicification tonight. It claims that one of the types of calcium in it (gluconate-complexed calcium) prevents calcium precipitation and alkalinity depletion. Oh, and it claims it won't effect pH. We'll see. No snow storm in my tank, so hopefully that's a good sign.

I split the difference between the lower and upper recommended dosages, which should raise it by about 20 ppm. I showed remarkable restraint. And, I purchased the little bottle: so I'd feel as if I had to make it last. I really wanted the big one.

Are you saying they're closed right now ??

Maybe someone is crawling on them ...

Wow, we sure butchered your post :razz:
Edit: err, meant to say thread

The fact that they're closed could be totally relevant to the subject matter. ;) They're calcium sucking corals in a system with very limited calcium. Closed . . . More like locked up tight.