i think we should lol its getting rough in here :mrgreen:

i guess its my fault i should have made a poll lol

I would wonder how these books and papers would have been written if it wasn't for people like Denny.
The one thing that bothers me is that your personal opinion holds back inquiring minds.
He is notpulling a dredged through the reef he's not skinning rabbits alive.

Omg....bahahaha gooder lol

here we go lol

here we go lol

sure sure lol

denny i'd like to test one of your blue agave polyps please. i'll do this free of charge buddy =)

camera's busted though can't promise you any visual proof or evidence. this offer is time limited.

done!!

haha well played.

:sad:

alright ill make a deal with you ill freeze it and you post the findings?:mrgreen::mrgreen:

Sorry, but what was the point of this?

Please stop.

:sad:

There are proper studies being done regarding the effects of water temperature on coral.

This does not give our hobby a good name by any means.

i will send in your concerns to the caring parties for sure , thanks though:)

so if i were to stick a rock outside with aiptasia on it you would you say its sad and to stop?


how about if i wanted to kill off some hydroids or get rid of a large predatory crab?

its amazing whats cool and what isnt in this hobby and how many hypocrites there are lol

who are you to sit up there and do one thing while you cast your opions downward huh?

the fact that anyone even has a tank makes your arguments void

amazing indeed lol

lets see if i got it though eh?


aiptasia: not allowed life

bristle worms: not allowed life

crabs: not allowed life

caulpera : not allowed life

zoanthid polyop: allowed life

so if its pretty its a sin but if its ugly then its " ok " right?



would love to hear the reasoning behind this...... though i doubt its sound

I'm going to ask that this thread be locked.
This is not the way that you or anyone else should be treating the animals in our care.

haha


well i fragged a zoanthid yesterday and well one of them died ,its true i admit it...... i didnt frag it to preserve life or the reefs or to help out a person in disaster i fragged it because i wanted two instead of one just as most do and i thought hey i could sell two instead of one....


one of the two polyps died from my fragging:(

so for the one that died its a cruel experiment isnt it? but for the one that survived its saving the reef and stopping from collections etc . lol

ok .....ya sure.........



anyways like i mentioned my next experiment will be even more interesting regardless lol


stay tuned!!


cheers

did you not read my last post ?


how is it any different then throwing out a rock with aiptasia?

isnt it knowingly throwing out an animal?


why should this thread be locked , the results for the poll are interesting and fairly even , so while you think hey thats sad others dont and had given an answer/vote and are interested in the findings , if you dont believe me read the RC link i posted but im guessing you didnt do that either right?


lock it if you like........ its not gonna bother me or stop me from going about my business lol


geesh

putting a blowtorch....laser.....kalk.....epoxy....etc etc etc to my rock and killing all life is fine , killing a single polyp of zoanthids is wrong.

got it lol

:pop2:

Denny, you are a nice guy but you are not a scientist.
You cannot just think up a fun experiment to try out without having a basis of understanding of what you are doing.
Corals are not meant to be frozen for fun "to see what happens".

If this is what you want to do, then learn about what it is you are observing, learn about what it's limitations are and THEN, only THEN, carry out your ideas after ensuring that the coral will not be harmed by what you want to do.

These are not playthings. They are animals, just like aptasia, just like cyanobacteria, just like hydroids, just like nuisance crabs, just like flatworms, ect.

I'm not saying that all of these animals are desirable in our tanks, and I agree that to control some populations of creatures is acceptable, but to try out situations without a basic premise is just cruel.

Sorry buddy.:sad:

kien, put the popcorn away....

I don't think I can bring myself to cut the grass this year.... Trim hedges !!!! Oh the carnage. I have to quit feeding the squirrels too. I'm sure I'm giving them some type of heart disease feeding store bought food. I will thou snare the stupid rabbit if he doesn't vacate by spring. Might eat him too. Top of the food chain, what a glorious place to be. Who loves Labradoodles?..

Ok, I guess I had to look.

Here's my thoughts. Experiment? Kinda dumb and pointless to me, and I don't agree with it on a "principles" basis.
However, all of Denny's points are valid. How many hobbyists introduce rocks to crabs in a very sudden time frame? Freshwater dips on bristleworms in a circular fashion? Ya, lots.
But, there really is no difference, morally speaking, in this vs. injecting acid into mojanos. Which I'm going to do this weekend.

However, this thread will get removed if the discussion of these issues isn't carried out respectfully (Denny, Jorjef, re-read that part, k? :))
People opposed to it are entitled to their opinion, as Denny is entitled to a rebuttal. But please keep it civil, mature AND respectable.

I think we went off track a bit and got a bit moral lets go back to the topic :)


Without a doubt I had response from the coral the next day. I expected a slow recovery and a polyp with slow to no response time , instead I got a fast response of opening and closing but wouldn't heal not even make an attempt

The salinity spike in the thawed cup got me wondering what the ice does to ssltwater exactly like how does it mess with parameters etc

I'm going to freeze another , this time WITHOUT a polyp and test that sucker out and then top it off with ro/DI water back to proper salinity and test it again for comparison :)

I think you need a faster form of freezing, no water or very little involved just straight to the freezer in the coldest location. Then toss back into the tank for a quick thaw.

i voted late but did so be for I read down, I voted wont survive. some people were talking about this being done in the medical field all the time but it is way different, that is an instantaneous freezing and only works on certain things, mostly single cell objects. or things that are not alive, they are part of a organism but not the whole organism. but it was neat to see what would happen as fruit flys and some types of insects will survive it so there was a chance, even thought we all know how sensitive corals are to temp change.

as for the other posts, I don't know how many frags I myself and several others have put out on the back deck to cook in the sun, just cuz it was time to trim corals and no one wanted the frags.

I guess I kinda look at it the same as trimming plants in a freshwater tank, just needs to be done once and a while when you have groth rates as fast as I used to have. guess I could have went to T5 bulbs to slow it down.....

Steve

a lid to keep evaporation down to min the salinity has to be out for this reason ?

and if you really want to boil it down, think about the MILLIONS if not BILLIONS of complex organisms we are killing each time we do a water change.. :surprise: :cry:

.. speaking of boiling..

i need a"like"buton lol

the animal is not awhere of whats going on it doesnt have a brain !

Any post here insinuating people opposed to this are "whiners" will be removed. Discuss results, discuss morality, but discuss it as adults.

I don't see any crying or whining, but I do see a lack of respect for life.
Some of us look at all the life in our tanks as an equal part of a complete ecosystem.

Imagine the uproar if Denny decided to freeze a nuisance fish - maybe an angelfish was nipping at some SPS - under some vague premise of extending shipping times or something.
It's one thing to control pests. It's another to "try out" random experiments to see how far you can push them until they die, then post it on a public forum.
It only encourages others to try more "experiments"

Denny represents a vendor here as well. I expect better.

Of course, you are entitled to your opinion, just as I am entitled to mine.

(this was posted just as Brad removed who I was responding to...)

I think you expect way to much. And since my previous post was deleted I will state I fully support what denny is doing and disagree with the last statement. Better Brad????

Indeed, if you are going to wade into this hotly debated and discussed topic you need to be willing to respect other people's opinions. And certainly refrain from name calling, even if Denny is a poo poo head.

Lol i never directly insulted anybody. Just seems like certain people are making a big deal out of things people do in this hobby daily. Including the people who are opposed to this. Don't get me wrong I don't think killing things for fun is cool at all, but this hardly qualifies as that. Either way entertaining none the less:pop2:

Slyguy,
This hobby is being put under more and more scrutiny all the time.
Do you really want to give the people trying to stop or restrict it more ammunition?

Very true Mitch I agree with you 100% on that. But I really don't think experimenting with a few zoas is really hurting anything. But I do understand where you are coming from.

Great, and I'm not trying to save the world, one zoa at a time either.
This is a public forum though so one should expect public reaction.

Hey absolutely. I wasn't trying to come out guns blazing lol. Everybody is entitled to their opinion, and for the most part I totally agree with you. I just happen to think this particular argument isn't a big deal. But obviously we are gonna hear arguments from both sides of the spectrum. Thats what makes these forums fun. I love heated topics :mrgreen:

ok everyone calm down a notch or two lol

wow you folks sure know how to derail a thread fast i stepped out for lunch and missed apparently alot lol :mrgreen:

anyways though lets keep the off topic comments to your selves or start your own thread about it as this is about an experiment if you dont like it then move on theres not much you can do about it anyways and the experimnent already happened ;)

i think its safe to say if you have nothing positive to add to the findings or such then move on please instead of posting things to try and get a thread locked that doesnt need to be locked for this kind of behavior:)

ty

ill let you have that one lol:P:P:P:P

agreed i think its a good debate so lets keep it civil:)