Good for free speech and opinion. Let's not lose that, it's a difference of those opinions that expand our collective horizons. It is in that spirit that I originally posted this.

I feel that we are all ethical hobbyists just by debating this in a civilized manner.

A bleeding heart environmentalist would be classified by me as some completely uneducated lobbyist that has read an environmental impact report that names the aquarium hobby as a destination for wild caught reef animals.

My reading of the Hawaiian Cleaner Wrasse issue, (several sources, Tullock, Natural Reef Aquarium, Coral Magazine June/July 2005, and too numerous online articles to mention), has brought me to this understanding; environmental impacts as a result of heavy overfishing, pollution, and careless tourism practices have had the largest impact on decreased numbers of this species. Collection of the species has been suspended pending the outcome of numerous studies that will determine the ecological impact as a result of the declining numbers. Captive behavioural studies have shown some traits of separate species reactions to the presence or lack thereof the Cleaner Wrasse in the captive environments, but have been inconclusive when it comes to comparisons in the wild. Studies in the natural environment will take years to be conclusive, and during this time I wholeheartedly agree with collection suspension.

Cleaners indigenous to other reefs have not seen their numbers dwindle like the Hawaiian Cleaner Wrasse, and are thus not subject to collection and/or importation restrictions. Interestingly, one of the traits observed in the Hawaii studies indicates that many species benefit from the services offered by cleaners in captive systems, and don't fare as well in systems where cleaners are omitted. That alone should be an indication that we would find these specimens a desirable addition to a system containing fish that benefit from them.

What we need to do as hobbyists is unlock the secret to reliably keeping, and eventually propogating, this and every other species we possibly can. When it comes to ethics in this hobby we can't overlook the fact that a great proportion of us have never seen a natural reef, much less understand the complexities of them. What we DO understand is that gorgeous fish or coral we want in OUR living room. Some hobbyists will never learn anything beyond the very basics they need to maintain a system or keep certain animals. It is up to more advanced hobbyists to observe, learn, and share their experiences with the rest of the hobby, and maybe one day rather than debating, we can say with some certainty that this is good and that is bad.

In my opinion - having one of these animals in my captive system has benefits that outweigh the negative impact that has yet to be proven in nature. I agree that this fish nor any other be considered "expendable". That's why I am asking for others observations, so we can collectively try to better accomodate this species in captivity and achieve higher survival rates. One of the greatest determinations of advancement throughout history has been our inquisition. I am asking for definitive proof and to have the ability to question why? We all must do that to some extent to move this hobby along.

Has anyone had any longer term success?

Well, that will really help this thread along. :rolleyes:

If a cleaner of some kind is good for ich, why not use cleaner shrimp, that are long lived in comparison?

By the way, Rayjay, out of London, has some info on his site on cleaners.

Do you have a link to the info Doug?

Maybe we need to shift the focus a little bit - what is the actual lifespan of these animals? Not what you have experienced, but the actual, factual, lifespan?

Rayjay's link - http://www.angelfire.com/ab/rayjay/cleaner.html

That's the kind of thing I am looking for... :mrgreen:

Doug, in my tank I have 3 cleaner shrimp, 1 fire shrimp and a peppermint shrimp, none of which my Powder Blue would let touch.

rather then getting a fish that isn't overly hardy, and may last less then a month, wouldn't getting neon gobies(proven hardy and available captive bred) be better. Neon gobies are also cleaners and many people on this board have stated that the fish had started "earning their keep" within minutes of being placed in the tank. Just my 2 cents :biggrin:

Good thought Marie. My research has in fact shown that juveneille neon gobies do display cleaning behaviour, though this diminishes as they mature. My purpose here is to have a long term biological solution to parasitic infestations. I had my hand in the tank this morning and the little guy comes up immediately and picks away at my hand... he does this regularly and I let him go at it. :smile:

An update on my neon goby experience. If you get them small from the LFS, they may start cleaning fairly quickly, but I find them to be not very hardy. :cry: Both of mine from J&L disappeared within a week. :evil: If I ever do get another, it'll be a bigger one from someone's tank.

Anthony

Thanks. I forgot to post a link and then had to leave. :smile: