IMO, all pump makes noise. submerge pump/power make the noise in the water and we can't hear it, if we do, something is wrong. I turn on my 6105 out of the water, it's a lot louder than my mp40, but it makes a good handheld fan though.

External pump like vortech keeps the heat away from water, but also the noise out of the water.

I personally can't stand having wires going into the display,

I can definitely agree with you on the wires, i like a clean looking display.
I'm pretty much committed to the Vortech's at this point.. now I'm wondering if x2Mp40's would be overkill (or necessary for that matter)? I'm planning on doing a mixed reef setup, should i just go with x1Mp40 and x1Mp10?

I use 3 x MP40WES on my 77 gallon which is pretty much a mixed reef. The two on the ends of the tank run anti-sync in Tidal Swell mode limited to about 75%-80% power, while the one on the back glass runs at a lower speed set independently since my tank is fairly narrow. Ideally, I'd prefer to have an MP10 on the back glass, but when I was looking for a used one, all I was able to scare up was another MP40. They all enter night mode together. If you are thinking VorTech, then at least two of the wireless models on a tank your size is the way to go.

On a 90 gallon tank it would be difficult to overkill the flow with two MP40 VorTech since they are so very controllable. You can limit the speed to 25% if you wish and at that speed you would probably barely hear them. Where the sound or noise is more prevalent is when they are ramping from a slow speed up to maximum speed quickly, such as in the short pulse mode. That's fine for creating waves & I've tried that mode, but it gets old pretty quick. A random flow setting using the EcoSmart Tidal Swell or original Reefcrest mode is a lot easier on the pumps, ears and IMO does a better job of mimicking an actual reef environment. In TSM, with a push of a button, you can switch to Nutrient Transport Mode which will kick up detritus & other funk you probably didn't know was hiding in the rockwork. I use this mode usually just before a water change. It's a good idea to 'tune' a wave with your pumps when you set them up, this will make NTM most effective. Another advantage of using TSM is that during the cycle, both pumps are rarely running at the maximum 80% setting at the same time & when they are it's only for a short time. The remainder of the cycle has them running at different speeds anywhere from about 25 to 80%, creating a truly random flow environment throughout the tank.

Even if you don't own a VorTech yet, you can download the user manual from their website. Get ready for a fairly long read, but at the end of it, you'll be well informed on the capability of these pumps. Personally I have no idea why anyone would need a separate controller for VorTechs, the controllers that come with them & their ability to communicate with each other pretty much cover any scenario that I can envision.

I have no experience with Tunze but from most of the info found in forums they are also a great product. Not sure they have quite the flexibility in flow options with their controllers as the VorTechs do though.

Thanks for your input mike31154, it was quite informative! I have decided to go with the VorTech's. I'm going to start out with x2 Mp40w Es and then later on, when my wallet permits me, pick up an additional Mp10w Es. Once my tank arrives I'll make sure to post a journal so anyone can follow :biggrin:

Ps: mike31154 may i pm you in the future if i have any questions regarding the VorTech's? It seems like you're quite familiar with the product.

Sure thing, pm away, but also feel free to ask questions in the thread here. That way everyone benefits from the exchange.

I purchased my first MP40 quite some time ago, April 2008 I think, so that's over 5 years of running & it's still going strong. In fact it had the Gen 1 magnet which would start rusting about 6 months after seeing salt water. Needless to say, EcoTech changed that design in a hurry. It also had the original controller, not the newer EcoSmart ones. Other than the new wet side magnet, which EcoTech provided at a bargain price, the ugrade to EcoSmart controller, the only things I've replaced on this old pump are a few wear parts on the wet side, like the ceramic bearing & shaft I think.

After that I kept my eyes peeled on forums & picked up several used MP40s. At one point I had a couple extra & sold them. I was also able to sell the original non EcoSmart controllers. Always a market out there for used VorTech parts. Not sure the same can be said of some other products. Many powerheads are not as easily or cost effectively repaired as the VorTechs. The modular design of the wet side makes it easy. Dry sides seem to run forever IME, but there's definitely a difference in the sound my original one makes compared to some of the newer ones I have. They are a bit quieter, so I'm sure EcoTech is working on that issue. They are certainly well aware of it, they read forums like the rest of us.

All 3 of my currently running pumps have been running without a problem for years now. A while back I replaced some of the wet side wear items on all of them. Kits are available & price is not bad. If you have to buy a complete wet side, that's going to cost a bit more, but so far I've not needed to go that route. As far as cleaning, I've found the less I mess around with them, the better they run. I've never soaked the wet sides in vinegar to clean them. All I do is every few water changes take a toothbrush to the wet side. The key to longevity with these is to really make sure you get them aligned properly. With an ear against the tank as you're tweaking the position of the wet side, it's pretty clear when you've found the sweet spot. To double check alignment, I'll sometimes run them in short pulse mode. The rapid ramping up to full power can also help you determine how well they are aligned, or not.