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lastlight 08-21-2013 08:08 PM

downgraded my house, truck and finally my tank. problem solved. now quit your whining!

jorjef 08-21-2013 08:13 PM

North American culture = wants over needs. We views needs as owed to us and wants as are right. Those beliefs will only intensify over time until something or someone smacks it off our face. Hope I'm long gone when it happens.

Seth81 08-21-2013 08:24 PM

If this world was populated by people who only ever bought what they needed the world economy and technological development would grind to a halt! lol... obviously that is an extreme, but people pushing their budgets helps to drive the economy.

I do agree though that people need to learn to live within their means, I have a lot of nice toys, but I can afford them. Why can I afford them? Because I work my a$$ off!! Some people don't work hard and still expect to drive those $70k+ cars and have expensive homes. I think the parents of those kinds of people did not install the value of a dollar into their children.

Also, inflation is undeniable... if you didn't get a 2.3% raise this year (in alberta), then your effective income dropped.


Quote:

Originally Posted by kien (Post 840021)
It kinda boggles my mind actually. Excuse me for playing the 'old-man card', but when I was growing up and I didn't have enough money to buy that new G.I. Joe super aircraft carrier, I did one of two things. 1. Accepted that I can't afford it and move on. 2. Asked my buddies if I could do their newspaper routes while they were on vacation so that I could pick up some extra cash. I wonder if part of the problem is that some people are blurring the lines between needs and wants. If you focus on living with what you need, life isn't actually all that uncomfortable.

For the record, I am an immigrant whos parents came to Canada with absolutely nothing but the shirts on their backs and young children in tow. I know all about living at the poverty level while mostly all of my peers lived well above the poverty level.


SeaHorse_Fanatic 08-21-2013 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kien (Post 840021)
It kinda boggles my mind actually. Excuse me for playing the 'old-man card', but when I was growing up and I didn't have enough money to buy that new G.I. Joe super aircraft carrier, I did one of two things. 1. Accepted that I can't afford it and move on. 2. Asked my buddies if I could do their newspaper routes while they were on vacation so that I could pick up some extra cash. I wonder if part of the problem is that some people are blurring the lines between needs and wants. If you focus on living with what you need, life isn't actually all that uncomfortable.

For the record, I am an immigrant whos parents came to Canada with absolutely nothing but the shirts on their backs and young children in tow. I know all about living at the poverty level while mostly all of my peers lived well above the poverty level.

I have to agree. I try to be good with my money, which is one reason I love Craigslist, and the main "luxury" expenditures are my tanks and eating out. But I do a lot of transactions with fellow reefers and use Entertainment coupons or Groupon-type vouchers for eating out.

Yet living in Metro Vancouver, with cost of living as high or higher than Calgary, I can see Michika's point about the "working poor".

BTW, I am also an immigrant whose parents borrowed money from relatives to move to Canada with 3 kids in tow and I had to wear hand-me-downs for most of my elementary school years.

I think the schools/parents need to teach their kids/young people about how to spend wisely and not on so much wants as opposed to needs. I have friends/relatives who go on trips all the time and then complain they are always in debt. Paying for vacations with your credit cards is just insane and a good way to dig a debt hole they will find almost impossible to get out of.

A friend of mine just went around the world, 4 months, 28 countries on his credit cards! OUCH!!!

Anthony

Delphinus 08-21-2013 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seth81 (Post 840029)
Also, inflation is undeniable... if you didn't get a 2.3% raise this year (in alberta), then your effective income dropped.

Yep. And I'm sure that at least for some, you can add "again" to the end of that sentence. Maybe not so much in the oilpatch, I don't know as I'm not in it, but for some the cost of living is increasing far faster than the earnings and it's been that way for quite a few years now. I'm happy that the oilpatch produces prosperity for some but it's a double sided sword (or whatever the metaphor is) because it drives the costs of things up faster and that affects everyone. My household income today is more or less the same it was 10 years ago, but the costs of everything that is being paid for - and I mean just simple things, like groceries, gas, insurance, etc. - is several orders of magnitude different in that timeframe. Add on top of that the optionals it gets even worse. The choices are "earn more" or "spend less". Neither option may be all that straightforward though. Hard to say.

Delphinus 08-21-2013 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeaHorse_Fanatic (Post 840030)
A friend of mine just went around the world, 4 months, 28 countries on his credit cards! OUCH!!!

I'm sure that was a fantastic experience though! Haha, but yeah, if all on CC's then .. yeah, wow, ouch. "Good luck with that."

I would agree that it does seem like people are getting a little casual about debt. That's a bit scary too in its own right..

Seth81 08-21-2013 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delphinus (Post 840035)
The choices are "earn more" or "spend less". Neither option may be all that straightforward though. Hard to say.

You forgot one option... move East! lol

Delphinus 08-21-2013 08:49 PM

How far east? :lol:

Seth81 08-21-2013 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delphinus (Post 840038)
How far east? :lol:

I say keep driving till you find Blue Star beer!

kien 08-21-2013 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seth81 (Post 840029)
If this world was populated by people who only ever bought what they needed the world economy and technological development would grind to a halt!

You are absolutely right, and therein lies our great social irony/paradox of our civilization :biggrin: You can easily see examples of this around the world. Third world countries vs First World, developed vs developing, Communist vs Capitalist vs Socialist, etc. The third world/developing countries are used to not having luxuries so there is little to no economic drive to develop. On the other end of the spectrum first world nations have everything and continue to strive for and want more thus fiercely driving further development. Depending on who you talk to, either scenario can be good or bad.

Unfortunately no one has the right answer. In fact, there probably isn't one. That is unless some miracle happens and we all wake up and collectively say, "Hey, you know what, I don't really want anything but I'm prefectly happy to go to work and do something for the good of all mankind." Star Trek anyone?

Delphinus 08-21-2013 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kien (Post 840056)
Star Trek anyone?

Sign/beam me up! :lol:

Seth81 08-21-2013 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kien (Post 840056)
Unfortunately no one has the right answer. In fact, there probably isn't one. That is unless some miracle happens and we all wake up and collectively say, "Hey, you know what, I don't really want anything but I'm prefectly happy to go to work and do something for the good of all mankind." Star Trek anyone?


If I had to put up with nearly getting killed on a weekly basis, I better be getting paid!!

kien 08-21-2013 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seth81 (Post 840060)
If I had to put up with nearly getting killed on a weekly basis, I better be getting paid!!

part of the Star Trek utopian philosophy is that no one would need to get paid. We would all be provided with everything we desired so long as everyone was simply happy to do their part. This would include strapping on gravity boots and dangling from a half constructed spaceship as you welded in its panels while orbiting the planet. :mrgreen:

Seth81 08-21-2013 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kien (Post 840063)
part of the Star Trek utopian philosophy is that no one would need to get paid. We would all be provided with everything we desired so long as everyone was simply happy to do their part. This would include strapping on gravity boots and dangling from a half constructed spaceship as you welded in its panels while orbiting the planet. :mrgreen:

Yeah I know, I am a pretty big TNG fan, but if the reality was that we had replicators and seemlingy endless power, you think that the Enterprise would have a pretty high turn over...cause people would just be like "You want me to put on the red shirt and beam down to a hostile planet??? Naw screw this, I got a date with the Holodeck see you fools later!:razz:"

kien 08-21-2013 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seth81 (Post 840075)
Yeah I know, I am a pretty big TNG fan, but if the reality was that we had replicators and seemlingy endless power, you think that the Enterprise would have a pretty high turn over...cause people would just be like "You want me to put on the red shirt and beam down to a hostile planet??? Naw screw this, I got a date with the Holodeck see you fools later!:razz:"

You're right, it's very hard to imagine such a way of life existing. It really would require a HUGE paradigm shift on all levels of society. Stranger things have happened though. :biggrin: It may be hard for many of us to fathom today but there was a time when women could not vote. When slavery was normal and accepted. When it was Ok to eat gluten. :lol:

Aquattro 08-22-2013 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kien (Post 840077)
When it was Ok to eat gluten. :lol:

you're just making that one up!! Who would ever eat that stuff??

daplatapus 08-22-2013 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kien (Post 840063)
part of the Star Trek utopian philosophy is that no one would need to get paid. We would all be provided with everything we desired so long as everyone was simply happy to do their part. This would include strapping on gravity boots and dangling from a half constructed spaceship as you welded in its panels while orbiting the planet. :mrgreen:

Isn't that kind of how communism started? :)

Phil 08-22-2013 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daplatapus (Post 840091)
Isn't that kind of how communism started? :)

Yes but there wasent enough stuff to go around so u ended up with the extremely poor

Reef Pilot 08-22-2013 01:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kien (Post 840021)
If you focus on living with what you need, life isn't actually all that uncomfortable.

The Kien is a wise man,....not just a good reefer.

I read a book called "Your Money or Your Life" a number of years ago. It's about achieving financial independence and "fulfillment", and the path there is not just about making more money... Has a lot of great advice and perhaps may help some sharpen their focus on achieving their life goals.

The Grizz 08-22-2013 03:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kien (Post 840063)
strapping on gravity boots and dangling from a half constructed spaceship as you welded in its panels while orbiting the planet. :mrgreen:

Sign me up, size 9 :biggrin:

daplatapus 08-22-2013 03:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Grizz (Post 840106)
Sign me up, size 9 :biggrin:

I bet your back would feel better too :D

The Grizz 08-22-2013 03:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daplatapus (Post 840112)
I bet your back would feel better too :D

Thankfully my back is feeling much better after 6 Chiro appointments, 3 messages & 4 days of ice packs.

titus 08-22-2013 09:30 AM

Hello,

Guys I see comments about profit / lose interest / shut down / selling, etc. While I have said so in the past but guess it's been a while since the site has been around for a while also. I feel no pinch of having to sell or shut down if this turns out to be out of my pocket. End of story.

And this is not a forum with which I'll toy around with. And no we can't host it for $50 a month. We started out that way and have already expanded beyond that long time ago. I don't know of $50 sites that will do triple backup between North America and Asia with quadruple data redundancy, or have to ship our own firewall to the data center because that's how serious we are with the infrastructure.

For the last 3 years since I started my new job I have been trying to do either an upgrade to vBulletin so we can add more features (bought vBulletin 4 CMS before it came out) or introduce new functionalities on top of a pure forum. We deployed it to the UAT section but didn't went through everything or felt happy with the work so I dropped the idea of going live with it. The point is if I'm not happy with it I'm not comfortable to let it go live. Unfortunately my current job hasn't been that facilitating (on Tuesday I left work at 2:30 am and I start quite early) either.

Titus

jorjef 08-22-2013 01:17 PM

It was the acorn.

Magickiwi 08-22-2013 01:32 PM

Have you ever worked with someone that you so desperately wanted to punch in the back of the head?

daplatapus 08-22-2013 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magickiwi (Post 840182)
Have you ever worked with someone that you so desperately wanted to punch in the back of the head?

Yup. :(

Proteus 08-22-2013 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magickiwi (Post 840182)
Have you ever worked with someone that you so desperately wanted to punch in the back of the head?

Nope. I'd rather they see it coming ;)

FishyFishy! 08-22-2013 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Titus99 (Post 840188)
Nope. I'd rather they see it coming ;)


Hahahahaha me too. Nothing better than seeing the fear on their face when the impending doom they are about to face becomes a reality to them!

JDigital 08-22-2013 02:23 PM

I want to punch my iPhone in the face! Stupid piece of garbage refuses to update any of my apps! Just sits there, "Waiting". Waiting for what?!?! Update my damn apps FFS! :bad-word:

michika 08-22-2013 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delphinus (Post 840035)
My household income today is more or less the same it was 10 years ago, but the costs of everything that is being paid for - and I mean just simple things, like groceries, gas, insurance, etc. - is several orders of magnitude different in that timeframe. Add on top of that the optionals it gets even worse. The choices are "earn more" or "spend less". Neither option may be all that straightforward though. Hard to say.

^^ This is pretty much exactly what I was getting at.

I don't play keeping up with the Joneses I learned a long long time ago that its not worth it. I found out a couple months before leaving for post-secondary that my parents weren't going to help me out and without the option of student loans my only recourse was to work AND go to school at the same time. I'm a very money conscious person now, kind of the result of being poverty level or below for much of my post-secondary career. I was lucky enough though to discover reefing after I'd gotten a little more settled financially. I've also learned you can only downsize so much and give up so much before you've crossed some arbitrary line that society will think you "weird".

I watch my peers literally run out the day their bonuses or stock options come available to spend it on new cars and fancy tech. Then again I also watch the entry level people struggle with their much smaller (if any) bonuses and I see the same thing happening on a smaller scale - the rush to spend.

This commentary has been popping up more and more often within my circle of friends and it was pretty interesting to see the commentary this generated.

Reef Pilot 08-22-2013 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by michika (Post 840200)
^^ This is pretty much exactly what I was getting at.

I don't play keeping up with the Joneses I learned a long long time ago that its not worth it. I found out a couple months before leaving for post-secondary that my parents weren't going to help me out and without the option of student loans my only recourse was to work AND go to school at the same time. I'm a very money conscious person now, kind of the result of being poverty level or below for much of my post-secondary career. I was lucky enough though to discover reefing after I'd gotten a little more settled financially. I've also learned you can only downsize so much and give up so much before you've crossed some arbitrary line that society will think you "weird".

I watch my peers literally run out the day their bonuses or stock options come available to spend it on new cars and fancy tech. Then again I also watch the entry level people struggle with their much smaller (if any) bonuses and I see the same thing happening on a smaller scale - the rush to spend.

This commentary has been popping up more and more often within my circle of friends and it was pretty interesting to see the commentary this generated.

I've been to this party, too. I had the bad luck of being on the tail end of the boomers demographic. So when I got out of school, they beat me to it, and got all the good jobs first. Same with housing, prices all went up before I could buy. And then finally when I did, got hit with high interest rates, and falling house prices. So, I would like to be sympathetic, but...

Having said that, economies go through cycles, for sure, with jobs, wage growth, and housing booms/busts. Most of these are beyond our control, and best we can do is be lucky with our timing.

But what is within our control, are the jobs/business we choose and what we do with whatever opportunities are presented to us. If you really want to get ahead then choose a business or job where your personal efforts and merits are rewarded. Don't get caught up in politics or peer envy. In the end, you will be assessed and rewarded based on your own performance. And always, always, always, try to help others around you, and not yourself. If you try to get ahead on the backs of others, that will always backfire, and just ruin your reputation and future (and you will be miserable anyway).

I was very "lucky" in my career, and managed to retire early, and now can fully enjoy life with family, hobbies (like reefing), travel, etc. Having said that, I never had to sacrifice anything or deprive myself or my family along the way.

Seth81 08-22-2013 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reef Pilot (Post 840221)

But what is within our control, are the jobs/business we choose and what we do with whatever opportunities are presented to us. If you really want to get ahead then choose a business or job where your personal efforts and merits are rewarded.

I agree whole heartedly!!

Dearth 08-22-2013 05:59 PM

There is another facet to the conversation of cost of living and that is jobs I've been on both ends of the spectrum living below poverty lvl on minimum wage and now I have a good paying job with retirement benefits and unless the mill I work at shuts down I will be a lifer.

We all want a better life for ourselves and our kids yet we are also our own worst enemies because we want the good things in life but need to big money for it. I actually had more money when I worked minimum wage which was a whooping $3.25 when I started to now where I make over $30 an hr. More wages means more bills, more bills means more toys, more toys means more wants and it never ends.

Then now kids of today want what we worked our way to earn I learned working minimum wage to respect money it doesn't mean I'm money smart but I respect it. Most kids I see won't even answer the phone for a job unless it is paying well above current minimum wage then most of us complain that foreigners are taking over our jobs but when you walk into fast food joints, corner stores and convenience stores your hard pressed to find kids working there and older foreign workers doing the jobs because they are willing to work for that minimum wage whereas we as a society have not taught our kids the value of money and grow up not respecting it therefore not respecting the work that they do.

I may be wrong but I also have been on both ends of the pay scale as well

Coralgurl 08-22-2013 06:28 PM

I have a neighbour who seems to care more about appearances and how much money everyone in the culdesac appears to have and judges based on what he sees, not what he knows. He's a douchbag a$$hole who doesn't "appear" to have any friends. I honestly don't give a crap about what you drive, how you furnish your home and what kind of clothes you wear. I do care about making sure my kids are well taken care of, have what they need for school and happy. We bought an RV a couple of years ago because we love to camp and we want our kids to continue to want to come out with us. And they do from 22 yrs old to 12, they love it and hanging out with us. It wasn't about what our friends had, it was about what works for us as a family. Its only been in the last couple of years that I have actually started to spend money on myself outside of necessities. My income has more than doubled over the past few years, from when I was a single parent to today. I worked my butt off to ensure I could look after my girls and it was not easy, and no, I did not receive any support. I chose a career in which my income is only capped by how far I want to grow within the industry.

The cost of living has gone up, for sure. But in the end we make our own choices on how to spend our money, what type of house to buy and car to drive. Life was so much simpler with no mortgage, no bills (being a renter vs homeowner), no cell phones, car payments, fish tanks etc.

If coworkers decide to blow bonuses on cars and trips etc., really, why do you care? If you are happy, that really is all that matters.

daplatapus 08-23-2013 03:13 AM

I was listening to CBC today and was curious to see if anyone had heard of this new report out of the Fraser Institute that says you can bring up a child for $3000-$4500/yr.
:boink:

I'm not even a parent and I don't see how that's possible.

The Grizz 08-23-2013 03:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magickiwi (Post 840182)
Have you ever worked with someone that you so desperately wanted to punch in the back of the head?

Nope, I punch them in the front of the head :boxing:

spit.fire 08-23-2013 04:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daplatapus (Post 840342)
I was listening to CBC today and was curious to see if anyone had heard of this new report out of the Fraser Institute that says you can bring up a child for $3000-$4500/yr.
:boink:

I'm not even a parent and I don't see how that's possible.

Maybe for the first year if you're breast feeding, and using cloth diapers

kien 08-23-2013 05:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daplatapus (Post 840342)
I was listening to CBC today and was curious to see if anyone had heard of this new report out of the Fraser Institute that says you can bring up a child for $3000-$4500/yr.
:boink:

I'm not even a parent and I don't see how that's possible.

This depends on so many factors. For starters, what exactly do they mean by bring up? If they just mean feeding the kid then sure, that's possible. Kids don't actually eat much. You could clothes them in rags for all they cared. :lol:
Daycare is a bit of a variable. Not everyone has their kids in daycare. Some have a stay at home parent, some have grand parents, etc..

spit.fire 08-23-2013 06:38 AM

Good news, I can walk without crutches now

Seth81 08-23-2013 06:55 AM

I spend more then that on my dog per year!

Quote:

Originally Posted by daplatapus (Post 840342)
I was listening to CBC today and was curious to see if anyone had heard of this new report out of the Fraser Institute that says you can bring up a child for $3000-$4500/yr.
:boink:

I'm not even a parent and I don't see how that's possible.



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