Red algae

[Slyguy00]

Everyday after i come home from work my sand and the glass touchin the sand all has a red thick algae forming on the surface. Everyday i turn the sand or syphon it and it still returns. Water perameters are all good. Can anybody help me???

[Slyguy00]

and its only on the sand, nothing else.

[daplatapus]

It may actually not be algae. Try googling cyanobacteria and see if that's it.

[Slyguy00]

That is it for sure! guess i gotta read up now lol. Any opinions on this stuff? how to get rid of it, why its there? Thanks for the info

[daplatapus]

Maybe fill us in on your system and we can help out a bit better.
How old is your tank?
How old are you bulbs?
What's your lighting schedule?
WHat is your feeding schedule?
What's you livestock?
What's your flow in the tank?
What are you tank parameters? Nitrate, ammonia, phosphate?

Stuff like this is almost always related to nutrients and flow. Finding out where the nutrients are coming from and what the bacteria is eating will go a long way in getting rid of the problem.
I've never had it, but I've heard 3 days of a blacked out tank helps, but unless you get rid of the nutrients it may just come back.

[Reef Pilot]

I regularly dose MB7 to keep it in check. Has many other benefits as well, and helps keep my water really clean and clear. If I ever see any cyano start somewhere, I just dose more for a couple days, before it can get out of hand.
http://brightwellaquatics.com/products/microbacter7t.php

Of course you have to keep your N03 and P04 down as well.

If it is really bad, then use Chemiclean to get rid of it. But it will come back if you don't correct the underlying cause.
http://boyd--enterprises.com/chemiclean/

[Slyguy00]

Well lets start off by saying my tank is now about 6 months old and everything in it is healthy. Its a 50 gallon bow front with a fluval 304 external filter cleaned every 3 days, 50lbs of live rock and 40 lbs of live sand with no sump or skimmer. My light is only 3 months old, but it is a marineland led which i have heard is not very good. I have 2 clowns, a convict tang, a mandarin goby and a six line wrasse. I have lots of different corals and frags. for flow i have to 720gph power heads. My water perameters have been really good ( i test everyday) and I just tested now, and my nitrates are super high, nitrites are next to 0, no amonia, no phosphate. What would cause my nitrates to go so high in one day, but not nitrites? needless to say im about to do a water change. Any advice would be appreciated.

[Slyguy00]

thanks reef pilot, i will look into that for sure

[Reef Pilot]

What do you call super high nitrates? And how often and how much do you change water?

[Slyguy00]

well for now i have the crappy nutrafin max test set so its not exactly the most accurate test set. and i consider high like 20 and above. However i just washed my test tubes, and water syringe really good and re tested, and now it shows 5 or less nitrates, but it still is higher than my nitrites. Just proves how accurate it is. I do a 5 gallon water change once a week.

[Reef Pilot]

Even N03 of 20 is not really high, unless you have SPS corals. Fish certainly don't mind. But you should get a better test kit.

What do you use for P04? Many of the cheaper ones do not measure accurately at the low end. Salifert or a Hanna LR checker work well. I used to think I had no phosphates or very low until I got a Hanna Phosphate checker.

Having said all that, one of my tanks used to have high nitrates (40+ consistently) and high phosphates (over 1.0), but I still did not have a cyano problem because of my MB7 dosing. It adds beneficial bacteria to your system which out competes cyano.

You'd be better off changing 10g of water every 2 weeks.

[Slyguy00]

Thanks for all the input. I will be getting a new test set next week. I need a more accurate mag, all and calcium test anyways. Hagen six. I will deff be looking into that mb7. And really? You think it would be more beneficial to my tank to do 10 every two weeks instead? why is that?

[Reef Pilot]

You get a bigger vol turnover in your tank with 10 g every 2 weeks instead of 5 every week. Do the math.

Or think of it this way. If you changed 50% of your tank every week, or 100% every 2 weeks, which will provide a more complete turnover of your water? Of course that is not practical or recommended, but just wanted to use that example to help make the point.

[Slyguy00]

Makes perfect sense. I will start doing that next time. Thanks for the advise!

[mattr]

could it be red slime?

[daplatapus]

could it be red slime?

Yup, red slime and cyano are one and the same

[Slyguy00]

Looking into it further, I think I may be running my lights way to long as well. I believe that could be an additional reason as to why I have cyano bacteria. How many hours a day do you guys run your lights?

[Reef Pilot]

Depends on what type of lights and intensity through the day. I run LED's in "Natural Mode" for 12 hours. But they ramp up slowly to a peak at "noon" and then back down through the afternoon and evening. I also have mine set for deeper water, so that reduces parts of the spectrum.

What are yours?

[daplatapus]

My water perameters have been really good ( i test everyday) and I just tested now, and my nitrates are super high, nitrites are next to 0, no amonia, no phosphate. What would cause my nitrates to go so high in one day, but not nitrites?

Just to comment a bit on this. The progression of the breakdown of nutrients in our tank systems starts with ammonia after they begin to de-compose. Beneficial bacteria in our tanks feed on this ammonia, process it and turn it into nitrite. More bacteria then grows and feeds on this nitrite and turns it into nitrate. If you have a deep sand bed or other area that is very low in oxygen, or an anaerobic area, there are further bacteria that will process this nitrate and turn it into nitrogen. But if there is no deep sand bed or anaerobic area, the nitrates sit there until you get rid of them with water changes.

If you have a sudden spike in nitrates without a reading of nitrites or ammonia in the days previous, the only answer I can think of is an error in testing of either of the 3. If you are in fact testing every day and diligent in those tests, it would seem unlikely (but not impossible) that both the ammonia test and nitrite tests got fouled and you caught it in the nitrate test. But if the first 2 tests were accurate, I'd suspect the nitrate test could be inaccurate. This is where good quality tests and a clean, conscientious routine of testing is invaluable.

[Reef Pilot]

You may not have enough flow near your sand bed either, allowing detritus to accumulate there. I have Orange Spot Sleeper Gobies in my tanks, which constantly sift the sand and keep it stirred up. I think that helps, too.

[michika]

I'm just going to point it out that the tank in question is new, 6 months old I believe. This cyano bloom could be natrual and you may have to do nothing more then let time pass and keep up with good husbandry practice.

I too have recently set up a tank and I had a 2.5 month daily cyano cycle. It has finally started to pass without any changes to my current practices. Just something to think of of as you're considering the variety of response you've received.

[daplatapus]

+1 to the above. Every new tank has extra nutrients and time usually solves them. I had actually meant to mention that too but sometimes my brain works faster than my fingers. Thanks for pointing it out Michika

[typezero]

I agree with above. Red slime does come here and there for me but in the start it was bad. I only found a multi pronged approached worked for me.
Increase internal flow
Decrease nutrients (feeding)
More water changes
Decrease lighting temporarily
With manual stiring and turkey basting of sand and rock
And i also dosed micro bactor7 with kz coralsnow

It cleared up for me in about 2 weeks. I get it now and then but just small patches and its gone next day when i tweek my biopellets.

[tang daddy]

I've never tried coral snow so I can't comment, but mb7 can fuel the cyano and make it grow more rampant. That was the case for me when I added it but definately cut down on feeding and do more frequent waterchanges. Also you could add vinegar as a carbon source to outcompete the cyano. Just google vinegar dosing to see how. But if you do decide to do vinegar dosing start very slow as you don't want to crash your tank by overdosing....

[Reef Pilot]

I've never tried coral snow so I can't comment, but mb7 can fuel the cyano and make it grow more rampant. That was the case for me when I added it but definately cut down on feeding and do more frequent waterchanges. Also you could add vinegar as a carbon source to outcompete the cyano. Just google vinegar dosing to see how. But if you do decide to do vinegar dosing start very slow as you don't want to crash your tank by overdosing....
Don't know the specifics of what happened with your tank, but I think you have it backwards. Carbon dosing (vinegar, vodka or other) and bio-pellets can fuel cyano. MB7, on the other hand provides beneficial bacteria that out competes cyano.

The mistake some people make is start carbon dosing and bio pellets before MB7. Then they have major problems with cyano, and adding MB7 after that won't help immediately. That's when you have to get out the Chemiclean.

The correct way to do it is start MB7 dosing (heavy at first) at least 2 weeks prior to adding any type of carbon dosing. Best to read the instructions on MB7, and on bio-pellets to get a good understanding of how this works. If you do it right, works really great to keep your tank clean and clear, and no cyano. I took my tanks down from a high of 100 ppm nitrates and over 1.0 phosphates to zero, and no cyano problems. So I know it works.

But like others have said, it is a combination of things to consider, and it is still a relatively new tank. So best to go slow on anything, and monitor your progress with good testing.

[typezero]

I've never tried coral snow so I can't comment, but mb7 can fuel the cyano and make it grow more rampant. That was the case for me when I added it but definately cut down on feeding and do more frequent waterchanges. Also you could add vinegar as a carbon source to outcompete the cyano. Just google vinegar dosing to see how. But if you do decide to do vinegar dosing start very slow as you don't want to crash your tank by overdosing....

You dose the coral snow with the micro bactor7. Add both them into some tank water and set aside for 20mins, after that dump it in the tank. Something about mixing them makes them work a lot better together, synergic-ally.

[tang daddy]

Don't know the specifics of what happened with your tank, but I think you have it backwards. Carbon dosing (vinegar, vodka or other) and bio-pellets can fuel cyano. MB7, on the other hand provides beneficial bacteria that out competes cyano.

The mistake some people make is start carbon dosing and bio pellets before MB7. Then they have major problems with cyano, and adding MB7 after that won't help immediately. That's when you have to get out the Chemiclean.

The correct way to do it is start MB7 dosing (heavy at first) at least 2 weeks prior to adding any type of carbon dosing. Best to read the instructions on MB7, and on bio-pellets to get a good understanding of how this works. If you do it right, works really great to keep your tank clean and clear, and no cyano. I took my tanks down from a high of 100 ppm nitrates and over 1.0 phosphates to zero, and no cyano problems. So I know it works.

But like others have said, it is a combination of things to consider, and it is still a relatively new tank. So best to go slow on anything, and monitor your progress with good testing.

Are you saying you had cyano and dosed mb7 and it went away?
If so could you share your tank specs, how much you dosed and weekly routine on tank maintanence. Also how long it took for the cyano to dissappear.

Just curious because it didn't seem to get better for me, more like worse.

[Reef Pilot]

Are you saying you had cyano and dosed mb7 and it went away?
If so could you share your tank specs, how much you dosed and weekly routine on tank maintanence. Also how long it took for the cyano to dissappear.

Just curious because it didn't seem to get better for me, more like worse.
No, please read my posts again. MB7 is a preventative, not a cure.

I inherited a 100g SW tank a few years (with a house we bought), that was full of everything bad, algae, cyano, aiptasia, you name it. Spent several hours every week, scrubbing rocks with a toothbrush, and pulling out algae and cyano, and vacuuming the gravel. I should have taken it down and started over. But it had some nice fish in it, and full of soft and lps corals. So, I decided to try and rehabilitate it. As I mentioned it had high phosphates and nitrates, so I decided to tackle the nitrates first.

I did a lot of research on RC and elsewhere, and decided to go the bio pellet route with MB7. I started slowly (very important) and it took several months before I was getting decidedly positive results. I then increased my bio pellets (and dosed MB7 as required), and took almost a full year before I finally achieved zero nitrates. Then I tackled the P04, which was still high, and took another 6 months or so before I got that down to zero with the help of GFO.

If I did it again, I am sure I could speed up the process. There was some trial and error, and it took me a while to confirm the positive effects of MB7. But what I learned, is to dose it heavily when adding more bio pellets and any sign of cyano (which does happen from time to time, esp when I get lax with the MB7).

My 100g tank has had zero nitrates for over a year now, and near zero phosphates for 8+ months. I added SPS late last year, and it is doing great, now requiring some major pruning and have frags available (anybody want some?). So am very happy with how the tank is now doing.

One day (maybe this fall) I should do a tank journal starting from 3 years ago. There is a lot more to the story, than I have time to post here. But I should mention that I have recently combined this tank and another 130g (that still had higher phosphates and nitrates) into one sump, so that was another little challenge. But it all worked out great, and now both tanks have zero N03, and near zero P04. And no Cyano...

[tang daddy]

Great story of success, so you used bio pellet and mb7 after you took over the tank and the cyano took almost 1 year to dissapate?

I am no new to the hobby, but just gave up on mb7 when I noticed it got worse... Which is why I am trying to get details.

I truly beleive that BP is the cause of cyano or reworded is what is keeping the cyano alive...

I've read mix reviews that coral snow and mb7 can get rid of cyano.

How much mb7 were you using daily for 100g of water?

Thanks for taking the time to reply, were all here to learn and share so it's great to get live feedback!

[tang daddy]

Also what lights do you run with your set up, old bulbs and exhausted rodi filters may fuel the cyano.... So I've heard.

[Reef Pilot]

Great story of success, so you used bio pellet and mb7 after you took over the tank and the cyano took almost 1 year to dissapate?

I am no new to the hobby, but just gave up on mb7 when I noticed it got worse... Which is why I am trying to get details.

I truly beleive that BP is the cause of cyano or reworded is what is keeping the cyano alive...

I've read mix reviews that coral snow and mb7 can get rid of cyano.

How much mb7 were you using daily for 100g of water?

Thanks for taking the time to reply, were all here to learn and share so it's great to get live feedback!

Again, I didn't use MB7 to get rid of cyano. I initially used Chemiclean for that. MB7 is a preventative that is used in conjunction with bio pellets (and other carbon dosing).

When I first started, I under dosed MB7 at 1 cap a day (because wasn't sure how this stuff worked), but the instructions say for my size tank 4 cap fulls per day for the 1st 2 weeks. That's what I would recommend now. When I started the bio pellets, I gradually increased to about 2 cap fulls every few days, sometimes less when I was away, etc. Once the nitrates were down (and bio pellet consumption greatly reduced), I reduced the MB7 to about a cap full a week, and sometimes longer too. That's when I noticed the cyano reappearing. I then increased MB7 doses to 2 cap fulls a day for a few days (and manually got rid of the cyano with a toothbrush and turkey baster), and it would disappear again. I have never had to use Chemiclean again since the early days.

I now dose MB7 about 2 cap fulls every 3 days or so (if I am home) for 2 combined tanks (about 230g total), and it seems to be enough to maintain. What's interesting, too, is that I have not added any bio pellets to my reactor for over 9 months now. Before I would go through about 1000+ ml of pellets in a year. Now probably only need about 200 ml. Maybe my SPS is consuming more of those nutrients now.

I think the important thing to understand is not to expect immediate results with anything (except maybe Chemiclean). It is a whole bunch of things you have to do right, and sometimes you need to make some mistakes to learn. That's part of the fun with this hobby. If it was so easy, probably wouldn't even be doing this...

[Reef Pilot]

Also what lights do you run with your set up, old bulbs and exhausted rodi filters may fuel the cyano.... So I've heard.

If you are asking me, I run Radion LED's, set as described in an earlier post. I used to have T5's with old bulbs when I started out, so that probably didn't help. I have a very good RODI system that auto tops off my sump with 0 TDS water.

[michika]

I just kind of wanted to say that Coral Snow made my cyano problem worse, and then it was further worsened by the flooding in Southern Ab this summer due to water restrictions and limitations (no water changes suck). Stopping the use of Coral Snow in my system lessened the thickness by at least half in 3 days, which in my case means that the Coral Snow was providing additional food source(s) to the cyano, which was counter productive.

I'd be hesitant to recommend adding anything into a new tank in terms of carbon dosing soley because the tank is still in the process of establishing itself and its bacteria cultures. The more you add, the more you have to test for and control and be aware of. Who is to say that carbon dosing would solve the cyano problem and not also create its own unique set of issues?

Additives/dosing are like medications and those endless pharma commercials - sometimes the side effects are just as bad if not worse. Use caution!