View Full Version : Raising Alkalinity Level
I'm currently dosing arm and hammer baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) and I'm thinking to change BRS product. They have soda ash (sodium carbonate) and sodium bicarbonate. I'm not sure which one to use or use both. I would like to ask Canreef members opinion.
Thanks for your info.
spit.fire
08-05-2013, 06:54 PM
http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=73979
hillegom
08-05-2013, 07:04 PM
Another good read by Kien post 335 how to mix and dissolve
http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=499780
Thanks guys I'll read them and search little bit more. I just tired to use baking soda. It takes more time and make mess.
hillegom
08-05-2013, 10:15 PM
Thanks guys I'll read them and search little bit more. I just tired to use baking soda. It takes more time and make mess.
How are you mixing it? Doesn't have to be messy. I put a tablespoon of baking soda into about 300-500 ml of RO , heat in microwave for 40 sec. and then mix.
Use this calculator to figure out how much to add to your water.
http://reef.diesyst.com/flashcalc/flashcalc.html
input80
08-06-2013, 01:47 AM
Hey there hillegom, something weird happened when I ran the calculator, maybe my browser ?
Cold always bake the baking soda to turn it into soda ash.
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hillegom
08-06-2013, 04:30 AM
Hey there hillegom, something weird happened when I ran the calculator, maybe my browser ?
Wierd, like what?
The link works for me. Anyone else have a problem?
How are you mixing it? Doesn't have to be messy. I put a tablespoon of baking soda into about 300-500 ml of RO , heat in microwave for 40 sec. and then mix.
Use this calculator to figure out how much to add to your water.
http://reef.diesyst.com/flashcalc/flashcalc.html
I'm using Randy's recipe. I need 594ml or 2 1/4 cups of baked baking soda for 1 gal container. I mix it with RO warm water but still it dissolve clumps forming at the bottom, so I go little by little and it takes a lot of time and when I stir it always spill.
I mix it with RO warm water but still it dissolve clumps forming at the bottom, so I go little by little and it takes a lot of time and when I stir it always spill.
Mixing baking soda is a challenge for sure. The benefit to using baking soda is that it is cheap, and readily available. I use it from time to time when my BRS Soda Ash runs out. To make your life a little easier I suggest mixing it with a hand blender. Mixing it by hand is an exercise in futility in my opinion :-) (because I have weak hands).
As Randy's recipes suggest, you can convert Sodium Bicarbonate (Baking Soda) into Sodium Carbonate (Soda Ash) by baking it. This is an added step that some hobbyist find annoying. Myself included (sometimes).
Sodium carbonate has a pH around 10, whilst sodium bicarbonate has a pH of around 6.3. This means using Sodium carbonate will tend to raise the pH of your tank while using Sodium bicarbonate will tend to lower the pH of your tank.
This is why Bulk Reef Supply (BRS) sells Soda Ash (Sodium Carbonate). It is quite a lot easier to use as there is no baking involved and it mixes by hand easily, unlike baking soda (or even baked baking soda).
I'm currently dosing arm and hammer baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) and I'm thinking to change BRS product. They have soda ash (sodium carbonate) and sodium bicarbonate. I'm not sure which one to use or use both. I would like to ask Canreef members opinion.
Thanks for your info.
Are you currently baking your baking soda? If the answer is yes, then you'll want to buy Soda Ash (Sodium Carbonate). If the answer is no, then you'll want to buy Sodium Bicarbonate from BRS.
You do not need or want to use both.
Once you start using BRS Soda Ash you wil find yourself in nirvana. It is so much easier to use as there is no baking involved and you can mix it in by hand easily. However, it is pricy and when you run out you do have to remember to order more. I frequently forget and have to bridge my BRS Soda Ash orders by using Baking Soda from the pantry :cry:
Are you currently baking your baking soda? If the answer is yes, then you'll want to buy Soda Ash (Sodium Carbonate). If the answer is no, then you'll want to buy Sodium Bicarbonate from BRS.
You do not need or want to use both.
Once you start using BRS Soda Ash you wil find yourself in nirvana. It is so much easier to use as there is no baking involved and you can mix it in by hand easily. However, it is pricy and when you run out you do have to remember to order more. I frequently forget and have to bridge my BRS Soda Ash orders by using Baking Soda from the pantry :cry:
Yes, I use baked baking soda, so should get soda ash then.
I totally forget about pH effect. I do water change every two weeks and also test my water every two weeks a week after water change but I only check phosphate, Ca, KH and Mg. If pH raise that high do you recommend dose alkalinity in the night time? I dose 3 big things when lights on.
If pH raise that high do you recommend dose alkalinity in the night time? I dose 3 big things when lights on.
Remember that you are mixing Sodium Bicarbonate (Soda ash) with water to make your alk solution, so although it will tend to raise the pH of your tank, it should not raise it to unreasonable values. Certainly not to a pH of 10 ! :-)
If you dose a bit at a time the pH spikes should not be an issue. I have a doser that doses a little bit, 8 times a day. Are you just dumping in the alk solution once a day? How much per dose?
Remember that you are mixing Sodium Bicarbonate (Soda ash) with water to make your alk solution, so although it will tend to raise the pH of your tank, it should not raise it to unreasonable values. Certainly not to a pH of 10 ! :-)
If you dose a bit at a time the pH spikes should not be an issue. I have a doser that doses a little bit, 8 times a day. Are you just dumping in the alk solution once a day? How much per dose?
I'm using Marine Magic Triple Doser. I dose Ca and KH 10 times a day and Mg at twice a day. I checked my water last SAT when all lights were off and they were at Ca 380ppm, KH 7.7dKH and Mg 1180ppm. My Mg is usually low but all corals are doing fine, so I don't change a dosing rate. I only have a very old pH test kit, so I have not checked yet. Again my corals are doing fine, so I don't think pH level is not critical condition.
I just found KH 1 gallon container was almost empty. It's time to bake again.....
If everything looks good and healthy, and the only issue you are having is what a chore it is to mix up alk, then my suggestion would be to buy a hand blender to mix your alk, or to buy BRS Soda Ash. Do not change anything else :-)
Thanks Kien. I'll look at both and decide which way is better and cheaper.
I just mixed baked baking soda with a hand blender. It worked really good and took only few minutes. Thanks again your info Kien.
asylumdown
08-08-2013, 03:38 AM
I just use piping hot water when I mix my baking soda, it dissolves for me no problem. Put two cups in to my 2 gallon bucket, turn the tap all the way to hot, wait until it's steaming, and put the bucket under the stream. It cools the water down significantly while it dissolves, to the point where I could even use my hand to mix it with the scalding hot water pouring in to the bucket from the tap if it wasn't also the most unpleasantly desiccating thing to do to your skin. I just mix the bucket with a wooden spoon as it fills up, and by the time the water hits the 2 gallon mark the baking soda is always 100% dissolved, and the bucket water is the temp of a nice bath.
I have way more issues dissolving baked baking soda.
I used a large glass bowl in the kitchen sink and filled hot water in there. Also I nearly boiled RO water to dissolve baked baking soda. And mixing with hand blender. It worked really good.
fresh
08-08-2013, 01:47 PM
I pour baked baking soda inside the 2L bottle I plan to use, add the water (room temp), close the cap and shake for a minute or so. Done.
I don't know if it is only me, but I don't have a hard time with it. I also give the bottle a shake or two before every use.
I pour baked baking soda inside the 2L bottle I plan to use, add the water (room temp), close the cap and shake for a minute or so. Done.
I don't know if it is only me, but I don't have a hard time with it. I also give the bottle a shake or two before every use.
Really? Dont you have a clumps forming at the bottom?
asylumdown
08-08-2013, 09:01 PM
Over the course of using the batch, I get some precipitate at the bottom of the dosing vessel, is that what you mean by clumps? If I don't clean it out between uses the precipitate can build up to a pretty thick crust at the bottom, but it doesn't seem to mess with the amount I need to dose
Over the course of using the batch, I get some precipitate at the bottom of the dosing vessel, is that what you mean by clumps? If I don't clean it out between uses the precipitate can build up to a pretty thick crust at the bottom, but it doesn't seem to mess with the amount I need to dose
No, I'm talking about mixing procedure. Once it dissolve I don't have precipitate at the bottom. When I pour the water or even little bit warm water into the baked baking soda then it became very hard and I have to crush it.
asylumdown
08-09-2013, 04:50 PM
Really!?! I've never had that happen once!
Well, I never pour just a little bit of water in. I use tap water for my dosing chemicals because over the lifetime of a dosing mix, I figure the teeny amount of tap water going in to the system relative to the 50 gallon water changes I do with R/O water is probably negligible, so when I mix I always add water to the baking soda at the rate of a faucet open full blast, so maybe it just never has a chance to clump up. I also use the hottest water I can get out of my tap. A little stirring and by the time the bucket is full the water is completely clear, with nary of clump or floaty in sight.
When I make my next batch I'll try adding just a small amount of luke-warm water to the bucket first and see what happens.
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