Pressure pumps?

[MarkoD]

I'm currently using a reeflo barracuda but id like a pump with more pressure.

What would be a higher pressure pump that will do about 4000 gallons/hour?

Thanks

[hillegom]

Thats a bloody big pump for an aquarium.
66.6 gallons a minute? wow

[sphelps]

I think you can convert the pump to a hammerhead just by changing the impeller. It adds more flow & can run at higher pressure but obviously will suck more power.

The pump won't increase pressure btw, you have to do that will some form of restriction or static head. Exactly why do you want more pressure?

[MarkoD]

I'm running a Beckett skimmer. I feel like the Beckett is restricting too much flow from the barracuda. I'd like to get more water forced thought the Becketts

[MarkoD]

anyone?

i was told little giant pumps have a higher pressure. but cant seem to find much info on them

[11purewater]

Now you're into jacuzzi tub territory!:biggrin:

[sphelps]

You should find out exactly what you need first, perhaps from the skimmer manufacturer. Unlikely you need 4000GPH but a pressure rated pump may be better if the Beckett is that restrictive. So rather than trying to find something rated at 4000+ gph in higher pressure pump, which you will have a hard time finding, you may need something closer 2000GPH. If the manufacture of the skimmer can't give you any suggestions then measure the pressure in the line from the pump you're running now and line it up with the pump chart to get GPH. If you can't do that then measure flow rate from the skimmer and line that up with pump chart to get pressure. Once you have your current GPH and pressure you can compare that to other pumps to see what you need and if there is any advantage to switching.


For higher pressure rated pumps Panworlds come to mind. Little giants are smaller, likely significantly less capable of what you're running now.

[MarkoD]

the manufacturer recommends 2000gph through each beckett.

i have the output from the barracuda split through a Y and it feeds both becketts.

i have no idea how i'd even measure the flow

the skimmer is performing well now. but with the help of an air pump forcing air into the becketts

[spit.fire]

What skimmer is it? I ran a Laguna 1500gph pond pump on my pm bullet 3 skimmer without a problem as long as I kept the Becket part clean

I found they plug up quick but once it's clean it was 100% better

[MarkoD]

It's a bashsea skimmer. The body is 12" diameter and 30" tall.

The skimmer body holds about 15 gallons of water, it takes a lot of air to fill the body

[sphelps]

easiest way to measure the flow is to put a bucket on the output line and time how long it takes to fill a certain amount of volume. Not super easy if it's all plumbed up but a simple task otherwise. If it's all hard plumbed up making that task undesirable drill and tap an 1/8 NPT hole in the output pipe from the pump somewhere, then you thread in a pressure gauge to measure pressure to determine flow rate. You can screw a plastic plug in the hole when you're done.

If you really want to hit that kind of volume you might need two pumps. Hard to believe a skimmer needs 4000gph turnover and require that kind of power consumption. Sounds like a new skimmer would pay for itself pretty quickly :lol:

[sphelps]

You probably already know this but manufacture recommends two MAG 24s pumps to run that skimmer.

[MarkoD]

You probably already know this but manufacture recommends two MAG 24s pumps to run that skimmer.

Where did you get that info. He personally told me two rio hf32. Which I don't really wanna use

[sphelps]

Where did you get that info. He personally told me two rio hf32. Which I don't really wanna use

All the sites I could find that sell them recommend MAG pumps, MAG 24 for the 2000gph Beckett. I assumed that came from the manufacture since it seemed pretty consistent but I guess not.

http://www.marineandreef.com/
http://www.aquariumshine.com/
http://www.baycityreefsupply.com/

[Skimmerking]

Marko Becketts are power pigs. I have ran 21", 24,28,36,48,72" becketts you dont have to run that powerful pump to each beckett. When i ran my 72 " dual beckett I had a MAK 5 running it and had a crap load of head foam like 36" tall. if you can achieve about 1000GPH thro a beckett then you are golden. the trick is the pressure pumps thou. running a mag 24 will do the trick. However u will find that you will alot of head pressure due to it not being a pressure rated pump. if you want to talk more becketts are my speciality skimmers too. Like DC pumps are Sphelps fav to have knowledge about.

shoot me a PM with your number i can call you tonight if you want too.

[sphelps]

Seems to me these Beckett skimmers should come with a pressure vs flow curve so you line up the appropriate pump. To just specify a flow rate makes no sense but then again the whole concept makes little sense, kind of like driving a lifted one tonne with 30" wheels downtown to work everyday.

[MarkoD]

Lol

The skimmer is running fine right now and skimming well. (With the addition of the air pump). I was just wondering if there would be a solution that could eliminate the air pump.

I don't think buying a new skimmer would really save me any money for the same skimming capacity. How much does an energy efficient skimmer rated for 1000 gallons cost ?

I feel like running a barracuda and a 65w air pump is reasonable power consumption for a skimmer of that size. But correct me if I'm wrong

[Skimmerking]

Marko I don't know why you are using a air pump when you are ramming a beckett skimmer with a big pump. not saying you are wrong, but when you have all that water pushing through the little holes in the beckett skimmer. you are making millions and millions of bubbles when you open the air valve how much air do you have going into this beckett. can you shoot me a picture. if you are now getting a lot of air you may have the beckets in upside down. it can happen and still work.

[sphelps]

Lol

The skimmer is running fine right now and skimming well. (With the addition of the air pump). I was just wondering if there would be a solution that could eliminate the air pump.

I don't think buying a new skimmer would really save me any money for the same skimming capacity. How much does an energy efficient skimmer rated for 1000 gallons cost ?

I feel like running a barracuda and a 65w air pump is reasonable power consumption for a skimmer of that size. But correct me if I'm wrong


Probably around $1200 I would guess, but you're not really treating 1000 gallons of water. The bigger is better thing is over-rated, going back to my example before with the truck. There are other benefits relating to noise, compact size and better design in addition to efficiency.

300+W 24/7 is probably close to $300 per year depending on what you pay for electric and while switching to something that uses as little as 40W might not be that convincing in terms of energy savings alone, the other benefits might be. Much quieter, more compact and an over better design, which despite what some might have to say is more effective at skimming. Hence why no one really makes Beckett skimmers anymore. Also when I mentioned it might be cheaper to buy a new skimmer I was also factoring in your purchase of two pressure rated pumps which would be around $600 or so, I'm sure you can get a nice more efficient skimmer rated for your actual volume for that amount.

But anyway I'm not actually suggesting you buy a new skimmer, it was more of a joke than or anything :wink:

[MarkoD]

Thanks for the advice guys. My whole goal with this build was to go bigger on everything. I have the space and its enclosed in a seperate room from where the tank is being viewed.

The air pump I have pumps 200L/min which I have split to both becketts.

The way these becketts are designed, it doesn't allow them to be installed upside down.

[Skimmerking]

Marko I was looking at your set up and notice that you have the air lines connected to a hose where is that hose going too. is that being fed from outside. and if you throw more air with that its going to suck more air on your air valve. having that hoses on there will minimize more air being sucked in

[MarkoD]

Ill post detailed pictures when I get home

[Skimmerking]

Thanks for the advice guys. My whole goal with this build was to go bigger on everything. I have the space and its enclosed in a seperate room from where the tank is being viewed.

The air pump I have pumps 200L/min which I have split to both becketts.

The way these becketts are designed, it doesn't allow them to be installed upside down. NO what I was referring to was the black valves that water is pushed through if you take them apart some things if your not paying attention you can put the actual beckett in wrong.

and I now see what you are referring too. for the air, you have it straight coming in from the Air pump. you should have a air valve connected to that air inlet when the line goes in to. this is how you adjust the air and the amount of air because Becketts will create a vacuum and cause air to be sucked in. the more the valve is open the great amount of air is able to be sucked in.

[MarkoD]

There is a valve on the output of the air pump.

Before I had the air pump the becketts were sucking in air. But not enough for my liking. I wanted more more more muahahahahahah

But the Beckett valve only fits one way. It's bigger on one end than the other and it has gaskets one side. So they only fit in one direction.

[jagermaier]

When I was running a Beckett skimmer I used an Iwaki pump. They are excellent high pressure pumps. Here's a link http://www.jlaquatics.com/product/wp-i100rlt/Iwaki+100RT+External+Water+Pump.html
If your looking for an in sump type you might have to go with a Red Dragon $$$

[MarkoD]

When I was running a Beckett skimmer I used an Iwaki pump. They are excellent high pressure pumps. Here's a link http://www.jlaquatics.com/product/wp-i100rlt/Iwaki+100RT+External+Water+Pump.html
If your looking for an in sump type you might have to go with a Red Dragon $$$

Lol don't even get me started in red dragon! But thanks for the suggestion

[Skimmerking]

Lol don't even get me started in red dragon! But thanks for the suggestion
yes please done get him going

[MarkoD]

ok here are the pictures.

Pump is at the far end of the sump. inlet is 1.5" and outlet is 1.5" but i reduced it to 1" for 1" vinyl tubing.
http://i579.photobucket.com/albums/ss232/IvankaD/Screenshot2013-07-17at51640PM_zps623d8bac.png


Tubing runs under the tank and into a Y where it splits into two 1" hoses
http://i579.photobucket.com/albums/ss232/IvankaD/Screenshot2013-07-17at51653PM_zpsed751fe9.png


the vinyl hose is connected to a PVC 90 and then goes into the becketts. The 2 smaller hoses are the outputs from the pump forcing air in
http://i579.photobucket.com/albums/ss232/IvankaD/Screenshot2013-07-17at51711PM_zps9a6ae426.png



water and air mixture travels down the "twisted" tube and then the mixture is ejected into the skimmer body
http://i579.photobucket.com/albums/ss232/IvankaD/Screenshot2013-07-17at51723PM_zpsd55c35b1.png



and this is how much SCFM i get with the air pump running.
Without the air pump (just sucking from beckett) this reads 0
http://i579.photobucket.com/albums/ss232/IvankaD/Screenshot2013-07-17at51736PM_zps1e669bb6.png

[sphelps]

No air pump - gauge read zero
Air pump added - gauge read 25 or whatever.

hmmm... Question:

Why even use the Beckett?

I'm guessing removing it would increase your flow substantially and while that might not be desirable as airflow wouldn't increase it would allow for a smaller pump to be used.

Oh and PS flow from that pump will be quite limited by the 1" vinyl line.

[MarkoD]

sorry that was a typo. without the air pump it reads 10

i was told that using a 1" tubing will give me greater pressure than if i had used 1.5"

[sphelps]

sorry that was a typo. without the air pump it reads 10

i was told that using a 1" tubing will give me greater pressure than if i had used 1.5"

LOL ok I thought I fixed all your problems. But i'd still be curious to know what the airflow is like just from the pump itself. I think the pump will put out the same amount no matter what so the two things aren't necessarily working together.

Pressure is not a good thing from your piping. Smaller diameter pipe adds pressure to the pump head meaning less flow. The more flow you put through that Beckett thingy the higher velocity though the restriction will be meaning a higher outwards pressure drop at the airline ultimately meaning more air will get sucked in. You don't want to restrict your flow before you even get it to the Beckett. Its really all about velocity through the Beckett, pressure rated pumps will do that better but decreasing pipe size prior to increase head pressure makes zero sense.

[Skimmerking]

Pressure is not a good thing from your piping. Smaller diameter pipe adds pressure to the pump head meaning less flow. The more flow you put through that Beckett thingy the higher velocity though the restriction will be meaning a higher outwards pressure drop at the airline ultimately meaning more air will get sucked in. You don't want to restrict your flow before you even get it to the Beckett. Its really all about velocity through the Beckett, pressure rated pumps will do that better but decreasing pipe size prior to increase head pressure makes zero sense.


Agree with Steve Mark. the pressure allows the water to still push. at any head. That is why a pressure pump is recommended as for the becketts dude. that doesn't make sense you should still get huge bubbles with the dual becket. its not about the amount of air its about how many bubbles the beckets creates which gives you huge contact time. I have always had the best foam with any beckett skimmer.

Just curious thou when you look at the becket valve that is the black piece that that water goes through. I cant remember the name. just make sure that its not backwards. that beckett should be having a loud hissing sound from the air being sucked into that valve inlet.

[Skimmerking]

MarkoD what type of pump are you running with your skmmer again. I know that a MAg 2400 doesn't compare to a Mak 5 or a panworld 150

[MarkoD]

yeah the beckett creates a loud hissing sound when it sucks in the air.

without the air pump it the becketts each draw 280 liters per min. and it still created foam.

but as per the manufactures recommendation for a 12" body, i added an air pump which boosts it to 700 liters per min into each beckett

the pump feeding the skimmer is a reeflo barracuda

[MarkoD]

LOL ok I thought I fixed all your problems. But i'd still be curious to know what the airflow is like just from the pump itself. I think the pump will put out the same amount no matter what so the two things aren't necessarily working together.

Pressure is not a good thing from your piping. Smaller diameter pipe adds pressure to the pump head meaning less flow. The more flow you put through that Beckett thingy the higher velocity though the restriction will be meaning a higher outwards pressure drop at the airline ultimately meaning more air will get sucked in. You don't want to restrict your flow before you even get it to the Beckett. Its really all about velocity through the Beckett, pressure rated pumps will do that better but decreasing pipe size prior to increase head pressure makes zero sense.

do you mean what the air draw is from the beckett with just the water traveling through it or what the air pump is putting out without it connected to the skimmer?

and in regards to increasing the volume through the beckett, should i run a 1.5" pipe from the pump to the splitter and then split it to the two 1" pipes? the skimmer inlet is 1"

[MarkoD]

ok so without the air tubing connected to the skimmer. the air pump pushes 30 SCFM

[MarkoD]

k so i fully took out the becketts. disassembled them and cleaned them. made sure to put them together properly.

now the air flow meter is showing 30SCFM with everything connected to the skimmer. and the skimmer overflowed when i plugged it back in

[Skimmerking]

Here text me your number man i will call u 2045738402

[Skimmerking]

ok were the ball valves put in wrong it seems to be working now what is wrong with 30 per beckett

[spit.fire]

I vote you scrap the Beckett and buy my reeflo orca :D

[sphelps]

1.5" would be good but I'd use either rigid pvc or spa flex as vinyl tubing kinks. I'd run a single line all the way to the skimmer and tee it off into two 1" lines as close to the inputs as possible.

In regards to the air flow it seems to me the air pump is doing all the work. IMO it sort of defeats the purpose of the Beckett which requires such a large pump. The Beckett is just a venturi which a designed to reduce static pressure enough to suck in air but you only need reduce the static pressure in the line to atmospheric in order to maintain the same flow from the air pump. Hence the venturi is much more restrictive that it actually needs to be if used with an air pump. What this means if you increase the cross sectional area in the venturi you could use a much smaller pump yet still obtain identical results. Not sure if that's much concern to you but these types of things drive me nuts.

For now I'd consider increasing your pipe size, measure results before and after (without air pump). I won't hurt, how much it helps depends on how restrictive the Beckett is and what the resulting velocity is. Also what about the impeller upgrade, did you look into that? These are things I would consider prior to buying new pumps if the goal is to remove the air pump.

[MarkoD]

thanks for the advice.

skimmerking: there is no ball valve. the one in the photo is for the return pump to the tank.


sphelps: i've always been told that pvc pipe was far more restrictive than vinyl tubing because of the rigid 90s that would be involved.. From the pump to the splitter im running the braided kind to avoid kinking. from the splitter i used non braided because i needed the flexibility, but still made sure not to kink it.

I will try it with 1.5" piping and see what happens.