Leaking bulkead solution?

[Dreadful]

Alright, so I'm still somewhat of a novice here.. but I tried something most people wouldnt and thats building my own custom sized aquarium.

Learned a lot since I started the project and I finally filled the thing up the other night and I fear there may have been a slight but crucial mistake during construction.

One of the bulkheads leaked a bit. I'm not sure if it was how I had the thing tightened down or if the hole drilled may be a bit too big. If I push the bulkhead all the way to one side as far as possible you CAN slightly see the hole that has been drilled. Also, underneith the plywood isn't exactly flat its all chipped.. but I dont see how that would be a problem

That being said.. IF this is the issue how can I fix short of draining the whole 100G display tank and disassembling and getting a whole new peice of glass..

I KNOW I cant just silicone it as it wont adhere properly to the bulkhead.

Here's what I'm thinking:
If I can cut a small square of some type of material (which the silicone WILL adhere to) larger than the hole and then drill out the proper sized hole in that.. then silicone the tits out of that against the glass.. then install the bulkhead normally over that peice.

Thoughts?

[babnika]

if you are looking for a bit larger diameter bulk head with a thicker gasket.
You may want to look at the schedule 80 bulk heads at bulk reef supply.

[Azzkr]

Is it possible to drill a bigger hole and just use a larger bulkhead? That would be the easiest and make sure to have the proper hole for the new bulkhead

[Dreadful]

not sure if changing the bulkead size is going to work they're pretty standard arent they?

[Dreadful]

i really dont think i can get a drill in there at this point and not only that i'd also have to drill through the tile and the plywood then.. its not gonna happen haha

[babnika]

The schedule 80 bulk heads are a couple of mm larger diameter then the abs ones commonly used & have a larger thicker gasket mite be what your looking for ?
http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/bulkhead-schedule-80-thread-x-thread-2.html

[Dreadful]

they look great but.. i need extra long thread fittings because i'm going through 3/4 plywood as well as 3/8 tile and 1/2 glass lol

[Rogue951]

Unless you can stop the water it will interfere with curing. U could try using underwater silicone inside the tank around the outer edge. Then water pressure would push the silicone into the cracks rather than out.

Since you said the tank is plywood I would really look the hole over. If it's leakng around the rubber gasket then the wood is absorbing the saltwater and weakening as we speak.

[FishyFishy!]

Are you tightening the bulkhead nut onto the plywood?

[sphelps]

Sch80 bulkheads do wonders, it's amazing so many people don't use them. Corse threads and thicker gaskets means a much tighter seal and they can take more pipe load. Try and find one that fits your hole better, there are many different brands that require different hole sizes. If you measure your hole myself or others can point you in the right direction. Thread depth shouldn't matter, the nut should butt up to the glass and you need a clearance hole large enough in you stand to clear the nut and allow access for tightening.

[FishyFishy!]

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c38/bilmaga/20130205_184440_zpsf20fa52a.jpg (http://s24.photobucket.com/user/bilmaga/media/20130205_184440_zpsf20fa52a.jpg.html)

Is this how yours looks? If you notice, the holes in the plywood are much bigger than the bulkhead nut. Allowing for access, maintenance, and a tight fit to the glass.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c38/bilmaga/Bulkhead_zps40fc4bfb.png (http://s24.photobucket.com/user/bilmaga/media/Bulkhead_zps40fc4bfb.png.html)


If this is what you have done and its still leaking, then go for a sch80 bulkhead.

[Dreadful]

well according to that diagram i did it the bad way haha.. and its too late now to change it

Rogue951 the overflow box is drained and dried. as of right now i just have the display tank filled

i'll measure the hole and get back to you guys but i've also been directed to this http://www.reef2reef.com/forums/equipment-lighting-hardware-diy-discussion/34973-installing-bulkhead-tips.html

[reefwars]

well according to that diagram i did it the bad way haha.. and its too late now to change it

Rogue951 the overflow box is drained and dried. as of right now i just have the display tank filled

i'll measure the hole and get back to you guys but i've also been directed to this http://www.reef2reef.com/forums/equipment-lighting-hardware-diy-discussion/34973-installing-bulkhead-tips.html

even if you did it to the plywood the bulkhead should still work , the gasket has to be on the flange side always never the nut side, the seal is in the gasket not the nut, the nut just forces the seal.

[Dreadful]

haha i know that part at least.. wouldnt make sense at all the other way!

[Spyd]

Sch 80 all the way. Hayward makes some awesome PVC bulkheads and they are a little wider which would help your issue. They even have a "long" model and you can also get them with a wide flange if needed.

http://www.haywardflowcontrol.com/prd/BFA-Series-Bulkhead-Fittings_10202_10053_2016847_-1_21003__Y.htm

You could probably get them ordered in through a local pool company or just find a distributor off their website.

[Reef Pilot]

even if you did it to the plywood the bulkhead should still work , the gasket has to be on the flange side always never the nut side, the seal is in the gasket not the nut, the nut just forces the seal.
Is it possible that the plywood is uneven enough to cause the gasket and fit on the glass side to be off a bit on one side, i.e. not flat against the glass?

[FishyFishy!]

Is it possible that the plywood is uneven enough to cause the gasket and fit on the glass side to be off a bit on one side, i.e. not flat against the glass?

Thats why I would never do this. You never know what imperfections that wood has on it. Not to mention he said he has tile in there too.

Tight against the glass would be the only way to do it IMO. Having the glass, tile, then wood is just poor planning.

I would honestly take it apart and do it properly. That would be just a disaster waiting to happen in the future with a quick fix. I think all of us who have been in this hobby for a long time would agree that temporary or quick fixes almost NEVER work out.

[reefwars]

Is it possible that the plywood is uneven enough to cause the gasket and fit on the glass side to be off a bit on one side, i.e. not flat against the glass?

that would be my guess is either the bulkhead is crooked to one side and a hole slightly too big or the gasket isnt flush to the glass, realistically the bulkhead only needs to be hand tight for the gasket to work properly provided the glass surface is clear and enough of the gasket catches the glass.

[Reef Pilot]

If it is indeed not flush on the gasket side, I would also be worried about cracking the glass if tightened too much.

[reefwars]

If it is indeed not flush on the gasket side, I would also be worried about cracking the glass if tightened too much.

absolutely , same with on the plywood , being on plywood may make you think you can tighten more.

if this were my tank i would drain and restart....i enjopy sleeping at night lol:P

[spit.fire]

You said you live in an apartment right?

Thinks to look at

1. Tightening the bulkhead to both the glass and wood is asking for failure, wood expands when it gets wet and even from humidity in the air, if it expands it could potentially break the bulkhead causing a major leak or worst case crack the glass (I've done it before from over tightening bulkheads)

2. The time and money needed to fix the issue properly (drill a larger hole for a larger bulkhead and drill the stand out more) would be WAY cheaper than repairing flood damage, especially in an apartment.

3. This tank hasn't been set up for long, I'm guessing it isn't even cycled yet, way easier to do it now than have to do an emergency repair job while its fully stocked

[lastlight]

definitely agree about draining and doing it right. this isn't a minor detail.

[Dreadful]

now that i finally have some free time im going to give it one more go before i go to all that trouble and see what i can make happen WITHOUT silicone or any of that.

i think i may have made some newb mistakes when it came to hooking up the bulkheads the first time.. ie gluing all the pvc underneith without having them tightened properly. all fingers and toes crossed guys.. here goes!

[Dreadful]

success!

the overflow is 1/3 full and no leaks as you can see
http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g140/DarkDreadful/06082013613_zps6836773d.jpg (http://s55.photobucket.com/user/DarkDreadful/media/06082013613_zps6836773d.jpg.html)
(that small puddle there is from last time and does not want to dry)

i made a small plastic gasket for underneith where the plywood was a little uneven to help make a more solid seal. i also was a lot more careful with tightening the bulkheads properly this time and i didnt do any of the plumbing underneith until i was sure they werent going to leak.
http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g140/DarkDreadful/06082013612_zpsd1a553ae.jpg (http://s55.photobucket.com/user/DarkDreadful/media/06082013612_zpsd1a553ae.jpg.html)

i only had a very minor leak coming from inside the pipe (have no idea why cause its tight) but i think its pretty irrelevant as that water is just going to be going back into the sump.

im going to leave this overnight to make sure its good before i finish up the rest of the plumbing!

[e46er]

Still a hokey fix
Drain and do it properly so you don't have to start a thread called " crap my tank cracked and flooded by house what do I do now?"

[Proteus]

I would really consider cutting the hole in plywood and have the nut on the glass

[Dreadful]

i may yet have to.. i found another silly noob mistake i've made.

when i had the glass pieces cut they came with little tiny cork squares to keep them from scratching or banging into eachother. i decided it was a good idea to place these at the base of the tank between the glass and tile to help as some sort of cushion..

i am now 100% certain this is the reason for my bulkhead leak.

as i continued filling the overflow box this morning small leaks started again. im guessing because these little cork things compressed as more weight was added. as i tightened the bulkheads more the leaking stopped but i eventually reached a point where the tiniest leak cant be fixed!

im so frustrated because im so close! i just feel like taking a sledge hammer to it right now! :neutral:

[Proteus]

Sometimes we want the easy fix and with this a easy fix just won't do. Once you fix it properly you will be able to enjoy the tank and a good night sleep

[reefme]

I would really consider cutting the hole in plywood and have the nut on the glass

+ million and one.

[Reef Pilot]

You are really asking for trouble if stay with the nut on the plywood side. You might get it tight enough to stop leaking as you keep taking up the slack with the weight of the water settling. But in future if the wood swells due to humidity (a very likely scenario) the glass could crack, and then you will have a very costly mess. And did you say you are in an apartment? I yi, yi,...

[Dreadful]

so overnight.. the leaking miraculously stopped on its own o_o


i really appreciate all your guys' input on this and i know its going against everything you've advised but im going to leave it for now and see how it goes :p

the plywood has been coated with a waterproof membrane so i'm not overly worried about it swelling as it should be pretty much sealed..

but you can all say "i told you so" if i come crying back with an exploded tank haha..

thats what insurance is for right? xD

[Borderjumper]

so overnight.. the leaking miraculously stopped on its own o_o


i really appreciate all your guys' input on this and i know its going against everything you've advised but im going to leave it for now and see how it goes :p

the plywood has been coated with a waterproof membrane so i'm not overly worried about it swelling as it should be pretty much sealed..

but you can all say "i told you so" if i come crying back with an exploded tank haha..

thats what insurance is for right? xD

I just don't know what to say that hasn't already been said...Good luck and up your insurance policy!

[Dreadful]

well looks like you all get your way anyways.. i booted up the system and now the plumbing leaked so i have to restart anyway..

so frustrated i dont know what went wrong i had everything glued nicely! but im going to go back and do it properly now.

ill keep you guys updated >_>

[reefme]

Good thing it leaks now rather than down the road.

[spit.fire]

Is it a 1" bulkhead?

[FishyFishy!]

well looks like you all get your way anyways.. i booted up the system and now the plumbing leaked so i have to restart anyway..

so frustrated i dont know what went wrong i had everything glued nicely! but im going to go back and do it properly now.

ill keep you guys updated >_>


Pretty confident we all let you know what you did wrong....30 times over lol.

[Dreadful]

you mean besides like.. everything? xD

i drained most of the tank yesterday and stored a bunch of the water in garbage cans haha.. no sense letting all that salt go to waste!

hopefully this weekend ill be drilling the plywood more.. i have no idea how i'm going to drill the tile though with it being already laid...

[babnika]

A diamond hole saw drill bit should eat trough that just take it slow & be extremely carful

[Dreadful]

diamond bits need water to stay cool to not dull extremely fast. i have a long shallow tub i had filled with water to drill it the first time. this time wont be so easy as it's laid in mortar and stuck to the plywood. not to mention its in an extremely awkward place AND my sump is under it lol

[babnika]

Could you get one with a removable shank. Put the shank on opposite side add a very long extension feed threw hole already there then pull up from up top & feed water down from the top as well just a thought

[Dreadful]

well..

it was a lot of fun! but i think its good now!

since there wasnt much space between bulkheads i decided to just cut out an entire peice around them:
http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g140/DarkDreadful/06172013619_zps22e7bf27.jpg (http://s55.photobucket.com/user/DarkDreadful/media/06172013619_zps22e7bf27.jpg.html)
http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g140/DarkDreadful/06172013620_zps0c377bbf.jpg (http://s55.photobucket.com/user/DarkDreadful/media/06172013620_zps0c377bbf.jpg.html)

as you can see i didnt have a great assortment of tools so i just drilled a bunch of holes with the same bit.. not pretty but it works

i then painted the bottom of my aquarium black so the light wont shine through from the sump.. >_>

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g140/DarkDreadful/06232013621_zps79a70a10.jpg (http://s55.photobucket.com/user/DarkDreadful/media/06232013621_zps79a70a10.jpg.html)
http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g140/DarkDreadful/06252013624_zps5b4d4b94.jpg (http://s55.photobucket.com/user/DarkDreadful/media/06252013624_zps5b4d4b94.jpg.html)
NO LEAKS this time.. my plumber friend came over and helped. I also made the plumbing disconnectable in case i need to clean it in the future!

the only problem i am having now is the noise level! i thought herbie setups were supposed to be quiet! there's a terrible suction sound happening from my emergency return line!

[Proteus]

Much better

And as for the noise on emergency drain who cares as its only for emergency. Shouldn't be used other than that

Now that I look at pics why are two drains tied in together. This could be noise problem. Emergency needs to be seperate.

[daplatapus]

Yeah, it looks like you have the emergency and main siphon drain tied together. You're main siphon is probably sucking air from the emergency drain. Those 2 pipes need to be run completely independent of one another and terminate under the water in your sump.

[lastlight]

really glad you redid the plumbing! I've used the drill bit method of making larger holes so many times it's embarrassing... and i use a regular small bit to make the big holes lol. But it works =)

At least fixing the herbie isn't going to be terribly hard. then it's on with the show.

[reefme]

Using gate valve for better control.

[sphelps]

Yeah, it looks like you have the emergency and main siphon drain tied together. You're main siphon is probably sucking air from the emergency drain. Those 2 pipes need to be run completely independent of one another and terminate under the water in your sump.

What he said. It will always echo up the back up drain when tied together, nothing much you can do about it, the pipes have to be completely separate.

[Dreadful]

now that i actually think about the way i did the drian it totally doesnt make sense at all.. if the clog happens anywhere under the T the system will still flood! how stupid of me LOL

at least all i have to do is cut and cap off the end and run a new line for the drain seperately.. shouldnt be too bad i guess :p

[Dreadful]

i also did a little more research last night and found that my main siphon should be about 6" lower than my emergency line. so i've already drained the overflow box to fix that. shouldnt be much longer now till i have the system running i guess! just hate redoing stuff i should have researched more to begin with!

[daplatapus]

Ya, but it's something you'll never forget now :D

And yes, your main drain needs to always be completely submerged and low enough that it doesn't create a vortices in your overflow. The other pipe you are using for your safety should be about 1/2" or so lower than the maximum you want your tank level to be at. Not 1/2" lower than water overflowing your tank, but where you want you max height at. I found with mine I actually had to play with that one a bit to find the right height so that: 1) water wasn't running down it all the time,
2) low enough that it would act as a safety and not allow the water height to climb above a certain point even if I had a total blockage of my primary siphon.

[Dreadful]

alright, ive re routed the emergency drain and am happy to finally say the system is fully operational!!!

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g140/DarkDreadful/06262013625_zps28312b9b.jpg (http://s55.photobucket.com/user/DarkDreadful/media/06262013625_zps28312b9b.jpg.html)

just started it up last night and i hardly had to do any adjustments with the ball valves http://www.thereeftank.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif

thanks all of you for your advice i couldnt have done it without you!