Sps issue

[Proteus]

As I expected some of my coral was a little po'd after a tank transfer. Colors have been coming back nicely in all but my shades of fall acro. It's browned out and no polyp extension since move.
My params are good. No nitrate no phosphate. Temp 78 +- . haven't tested ca alk mg. but I do a 5g WC every 5 days on 45ish gallon system. Everything is happy otherwise. Dose flatworm stop, sponge power, vitalizer.

Any idea what can help.

[Aquattro]

Leave it and pray to the reef gods. If everything else is doing well, the tank is fine, that coral is just ticked off. It will come back or it won't. Playing around with stuff could annoy the rest that are fine.

[ScubaSteve]

Hate to say it but: time. I have a couple of frags that I PO'd in various ways that caused them to brown out. One frag turned green after 3 months and now, a total of 9 months after it turning brown, it's finally getting it's brilliant red back. I have an electric pink milli with blue tips that browned out. A year later it's finally getting its colour back.

What I did find that helped colour back up was feeding my fish heavily while simultaneously vodka/mb7 dosing. Once I started feeding really heavy my frags suddenly spang back to life.

[xenon]

I would still test the big 3 (cal,alk,mag) just to be sure. :)

[Proteus]

Leave it and pray to the reef gods. If everything else is doing well, the tank is fine, that coral is just ticked off. It will come back or it won't. Playing around with stuff could annoy the rest that are fine.

Hate to say it but: time. I have a couple of frags that I PO'd in various ways that caused them to brown out. One frag turned green after 3 months and now, a total of 9 months after it turning brown, it's finally getting it's brilliant red back. I have an electric pink milli with blue tips that browned out. A year later it's finally getting its colour back.

What I did find that helped colour back up was feeding my fish heavily while simultaneously vodka/mb7 dosing. Once I started feeding really heavy my frags suddenly spang back to life.

I figured as much. I would cry a little if I wipe out the rest trying to tinker with one. It's just a really nice piece lol. I am just really hoping to see some polyps soon

I would still test the big 3 (cal,alk,mag) just to be sure. :)


I will test tomorrow. Just lazy ATM ;)

Thank you

[fishytime]

I agree with Brad....there is one thing that we all need to realize and doing so will save a lot of us a lot of stress and hair pulling..... we take corals from the four corners of the earth.....different oceans and seas, different conditions.....we stuff them all into one tiny little box and expect them ALL to be happy....this IMHO is impossible.....personally, I have never run a tank where EVERY coral in the tank was 100% happy 100% of the time.....if 99% of the coral is doing great, then dont mess with your params....perhaps a re-location of Mr Grumpy is all that you need(like to my tank:mrgreen:).....you said you were adding flatworm stop, maybe thats the culprit?

[Proteus]

.you said you were adding flatworm stop, maybe thats the culprit?

Been dosing it for a year. Never had issue. I'm sure it's just from the tank move. If it does get better you may very well find a piece in your tank :)

I guess this is what happens when you go from live rock to Marco. Need some time to mature

[fishytime]

I guess this is what happens when you go from live rock to Marco. Need some time to mature

Don't get me started on Marco rock:twised:

[Aquattro]

Don't get me started on Marco rock:twised:

Oh, please do :)

[Proteus]

I have 20lbs lbs of Marco rock in DT. 10lbs live rock in sump and a mr1 reactor full of hydroton. I know about the lack of biological but the LR and hydroton where from last tank. Also cycled Marco for 2 months with DT water and sponges I had in sump

[mseepman]

I am using 100% dry rock...well, I cycled about 90lbs for a year and added 2 chromis about 4 months before my big tank got started. I also put 100lbs of Marco rock into tubs of RODI water for 4 months prior to putting them into my tank...with 50%monthly water changes. I used Prodi-bio from the start and have no Phos or Nitrate problems...SPS seems to be doing fine.

[Reef Pilot]

Yeah, what's the problem with Marco rock??? When I added a 2nd tank, I bought a bunch of Marco rock, mixed it with my live rock, and never had any problems. Nitrates and phosphates are zero, and growing SPS nicely. That was about a year ago.

[Proteus]

Lol Doug. Tell us your beef with Marco rock

[dino]

ive used 50/50 live/macro rock without issues?

[fishytime]

I will tell you all my beef with it when I'm not typing on a phone on a smoke break:wink:

[fishytime]

First off I wanna say that I am not by any means lumping all dry rock into the same category here....all dry rock is not equal, I believe some of it can come back to be being as good as live rock, but I dont think that Marco rock is one of the ones that can..it is rock that has been buried underground for a million years and is for all intents and purposes, petrified.....it is extremely dense and heavy....for the most part, the pieces you find, feel like a chunk of concrete when you pick them up(and they might as well be concrete)....every so often you will find a porous piece (relatively speaking) mixed in there but they are few and far between...Ive personally handled probably about 3000 lbs of the stuff.....while the dense pieces are full of holes, all these holes are, is surface area.....the holes are almost solid and smooth.....good live rock is like a sponge, porous to the core, becoming "live" all the way through.....to give you an example, about a year and a half back, we got in a REALLY nice shipment of LR from Walt Smith....one of the pieces was the size of a bucket of salt and weighed 22 lbs when we first unpacked it.....one week later I sold it to a customer and it weighed 25 lbs....that piece soaked up three pounds of water in one week.....

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o19/fishytime/Fishytime%202/IMG_0116.jpg






Im willing to bet that a 22 lb piece of Marco rock, will be a fraction of the size and will still be a 22lb rock after ten years under water:mrgreen:.... if you've ever tried to drill a hole through Marco rock or cut it with a dremel, you will have found that it is extremely hard and shatters easily....


my beef isnt really with Marco rock....it is more to do with the fact that Marco rock is marketed as cost effective, pest free, will be as good as live rock in a month solution to expensive "real" live rock....people need to treat it as base rock that just so happens to look like live rock.....they need to have in their minds from the get go that if you have a 200g tank that has 150lbs of Marco and 50 lbs LR, then you can not treat the tank as though you have 200lbs of rock....cuz they dont.....they have 50 lbs of live rock and 150 lbs of rock that may take as much as a year to become half as good as 150lbs of live rock (biologically speaking).....they need to go slow(er) and stock their tanks accordingly..... in the six years Ive been working at a LFS Ive noticed a distinct trend....that being, that people that have used Marco rock seem to have way more problems associated poor biological capacity (such as cyano, diatoms, high nitrates, high phosphates and general coral ****edoffedness) than people that have used LR......over the years, the "did you use any dry rock in the tank" question went from being one of the last questions I asked, to one of the first questions I ask when a customer comes in with fishues.....

[Proteus]

Valid points. My reason for Marco rock was to be done with unwanted hitchhikers. After all people go through alot of trouble qt'n fish and coral. Dipping and dosing. To turn around and dump rocks pulled off the breeding ground of these unwanted pest.

[mrhasan]

Valid points. My reason for Marco rock was to be done with unwanted hitchhikers. After all people go through alot of trouble qt'n fish and coral. Dipping and dosing. To turn around and dump rocks pulled off the breeding ground of these unwanted pest.

Answer to pest free live rock: man made ocean cultured live rock :D or old live rocks from fellow hobbyist. The only pests that got in my tank was through frags.

[Reef Pilot]

while the dense pieces are full of holes, all these holes are, is surface area.....the holes are almost solid and smooth.....good live rock is like a sponge, porous to the core, becoming "live" all the way through....
Hmmm, thanks for the explanation. It does make sense that true live rock would be more porous.

I now have a 50/50 mixture of live and marco rock. I didn't notice a difference in weight, and my tanks are doing fine with it. But after reading this, I may just add live rock if I need any more in the future.

[Proteus]

I would still test the big 3 (cal,alk,mag) just to be sure. :)

So I did my test and yes a little low.
CA: 400
KH: 5
MG: 1180

I brought them up over 2 days and mg still bring up a little as I hate the test. Lol


Originally Posted by fishytime
while the dense pieces are full of holes, all these holes are, is surface area.....the holes are almost solid and smooth.....good live rock is like a sponge, porous to the core, becoming "live" all the way through....


How does porus all the way to core help unless there's flow through the rock. And would coraline not block most of these pores.

Asking for info... Not to be ignorant

[xenon]

I am glad to see you water tested.

When my alk drops to 6dkh, my SPS start to STN so that makes perfect sense. You can safely increase 1.4dkh every 24hrs.

When mag is that low, my monti's loose their color.

At least you know what the issue is now. :)

[fishytime]

How does porus all the way to core help unless there's flow through the rock. And would coraline not block most of these pores.

Asking for info... Not to be ignorant

thus the reason adequate flow and a diligent regime of rock maintenance is important.....tho Im not really sure that there needs to be flow all the way to the core for beneficial bacteria to be able to colonize..... also coraline (and other algae) only grow on outer surfaces that get exposed to light....

[fishytime]

I am glad to see you water tested.

When my alk drops to 6dkh, my SPS start to STN so that makes perfect sense. You can safely increase 1.4dkh every 24hrs.

When mag is that low, my monti's loose their color.

At least you know what the issue is now. :)

his numbers are low but, if low numbers were the culprit, wouldnt it show up in all his corals, not just one?.....I guess the same could be said for any suspected cause......this is what makes dispensing advice so difficult....everyone's system is different.....being that it is only one coral we are talking about, I would think that it has more to do with the lighting or flow requirements for that individual coral or perhaps it's proximity to another coral.....

[Proteus]

his numbers are low but, if low numbers were the culprit, wouldnt it show up in all his corals, not just one?.....I guess the same could be said for any suspected cause......this is what makes dispensing advice so difficult....everyone's system is different.....being that it is only one coral we are talking about, I would think that it has more to do with the lighting or flow requirements for that individual coral or perhaps it's proximity to another coral.....

This piece in question is solitary. No others within 4/5". There is great flow and I have tried changing. Lighting hasn't changed. The only thing I would say changed other than rock was it along with all other coral was dippers in RPS

There is a small hint of green at the base which is a good sign I guess


Doug. With the thought on the rock. I can't see benificial a in center of rock doing alot of good with out flow through it to benifit what is on the exterior. Fish/coral/nutrients. After all shouldn't that water pass buy the benificial to process it.

And even though you said coraline grows where the light it it still cover pores eventually making rock smooth and coated like having been painted. I also have a orange coraline that grows in low light. And dies when exposed to higher light level

I only question in case I do indeed go back to live rock. As I want my $$$ to count

[xenon]

his numbers are low but, if low numbers were the culprit, wouldnt it show up in all his corals, not just one?

All corals react differently.

Some species can be very hardy while others are super sensitive.

[mseepman]

Interesting read on your thoughts on Dry Rock Doug. My entire tank is composed of it in some way, just varying periods of time in the water. So far, I have no bad algae and no problems other than low low ALK. I do use Prodibio religiously though, so maybe that has helped.

[fishytime]

This piece in question is solitary. No others within 4/5". There is great flow and I have tried changing. Lighting hasn't changed. The only thing I would say changed other than rock was it along with all other coral was dippers in RPS

There is a small hint of green at the base which is a good sign I guess


Doug. With the thought on the rock. I can't see benificial a in center of rock doing alot of good with out flow through it to benifit what is on the exterior. Fish/coral/nutrients. After all shouldn't that water pass buy the benificial to process it.

And even though you said coraline grows where the light it it still cover pores eventually making rock smooth and coated like having been painted. I also have a orange coraline that grows in low light. And dies when exposed to higher light level

I only question in case I do indeed go back to live rock. As I want my $$$ to count

I may just be talking out of my arse here because I am in no way an expert on hydrodynamics but it could be similar to the aerodynamics we see in our houses.....you have that window in the bedroom on the second floor cracked and when you open the window in the basement, one of the doors in the house slams shut?.....I would venture a guess that if the center of live rock was not "live", then it would turn black like a stagnant pocket in a sand bed or parts of live rock that are buried in the sand....


All corals react differently.

Some species can be very hardy while others are super sensitive.


agreed.....I know that for myself, montipora seem to take forever settling in, recovering from being fragged or a change in conditions.....Nick, this wouldnt happen to be a smooth bodied acro would it?....just asking because as a general rule, most smooth bodied acros are tricky and finicky at the best of times, let alone in a newish tank scenario.....


Interesting read on your thoughts on Dry Rock Doug. My entire tank is composed of it in some way, just varying periods of time in the water. So far, I have no bad algae and no problems other than low low ALK. I do use Prodibio religiously though, so maybe that has helped.

the prodibio is likely helping and you said that only a percentage of the rock you used was Marco rock.......annnnd you still have a relatively small bioload for the size of the system you have

[Proteus]

Thanks Doug. I do value your knowledge. As y I ask so much. I will slowly add/replace some rock

This is the piece in question
http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd400/titus991/null-28.jpg

[xenon]

If you have lots of base rock, you would benefit greatly from the new Bakto Blend by Fauna Marin.

[Proteus]

If you have lots of base rock, you would benefit greatly from the new Bakto Blend by Fauna Marin.

How would this benifit.
The Marco rock was cured and cycled for a few month before use with tank water rock and sponges from old sump. I run a prodibio tank. And have lots of live rock in sump now along with a reactor full of hydroton from old tank

[xenon]

How would this benifit.
The Marco rock was cured and cycled for a few month before use with tank water rock and sponges from old sump. I run a prodibio tank. And have lots of live rock in sump now along with a reactor full of hydroton from old tank

Bakto blend is used for new tanks that use base rock or tanks that carbon dose that may have a mono culture of bacteria.

It sounds like you covered your bases and seeded your baserock with bacteria from LR so no worries. :)

[Proteus]

Ok Kool. I googled the product but no real info

Ill def keep in mind as any positive bacteria is good