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View Full Version : Need Help Choosing a Lighting Solution


WarDog
05-07-2013, 03:27 AM
Hello all. I am new to saltwater and have hit a wall. I can't decide which type of lighting fixture to go with. I would really appreciate some insight. Hoping you all could vote which light you would recommend for a Salty Noob. As for planned livestock, start with softies and work my way up to SPS in a year or two. Thanks. Build journal to follow once I figure out how to photobucket pics here, Lol!

mrhasan
05-07-2013, 03:31 AM
Hello all. I am new to saltwater and have hit a wall. I can't decide which type of lighting fixture to go with. I would really appreciate some insight. Hoping you all could vote which light you would recommend for a Salty Noob. As for planned livestock, start with softies and work my way up to SPS in a year or two. Thanks. Build journal to follow once I figure out how to photobucket pics here, Lol!

Personally, I wouldn't suggest you to get high end LED fixtures yet since you plan of moving to SPS in a "year or two" which is a long time considering how LEDs technologies are changing in every six months. Or maybe you can go for fixtures like AI sol or vega (or maybe some generic chinese fixture) for now and when time comes, get a higher end fixture. Since you are going softies for now, I wouldn't put much pressure on lighting ;) Just my $0.05.

fishytime
05-07-2013, 04:05 AM
how big is the tank?

WarDog
05-07-2013, 05:15 AM
65gal, 36 x 18 with DSB... so about 19" deep.

WarDog
05-11-2013, 11:01 PM
Weekend bump... please vote!

Myka
05-12-2013, 12:42 AM
I think most newbies should start with T5s. They are reasonably priced, and you can even grow many SPS under them if you want. They are versatile too...you can use bulbs with less PAR for lower light conditions or you can use bulbs with higher PAR for corals like SPS. Most newbie friendly corals do better under lower lighting, plus algae is less of a problem.

I wouldn't bother with any LEDs besides the top end fixtures, and that is quite a big chunk of cash for a newbie to chew.

lastlight
05-12-2013, 02:52 AM
I think most newbies should start with T5s. They are reasonably priced, and you can even grow many SPS under them if you want. They are versatile too...you can use bulbs with less PAR for lower light conditions or you can use bulbs with higher PAR for corals like SPS. Most newbie friendly corals do better under lower lighting, plus algae is less of a problem.

I wouldn't bother with any LEDs besides the top end fixtures, and that is quite a big chunk of cash for a newbie to chew.

+lots

fishytime
05-12-2013, 02:52 AM
I respectfully disagree Mindy.....while cheaper to begin with T5s and MH will burn you(pun intended) in the long run with bulb changes and other associated costs.....the better LED units units will allow much more flexabillty in all aspects....intensity, color and programing.....why start with a unit that you wont be able to give away in a couple years?

lastlight
05-12-2013, 02:55 AM
People can't give away those units now meaning a noob can acquire cheaply.

Investing in a decent LED setup is a bit risky considering plenty of noobs jump ship shortly after starting. Less financial risk I think. Unit cheap. Pony up for prob 4 bulbs. Go from there.

fishytime
05-12-2013, 02:59 AM
decent LED unit holds its value(more so then T5 and MH in todays market) and is actually sell-able if he does decide to bail:wink:

fishytime
05-12-2013, 03:02 AM
besides....just because he is new to the hobby doesnt mean he should cheap out on equipment....we all know that you get what you pay for in this hobby and most people would have liked to know this before throwing $ away on something they were not going to be happy with

lastlight
05-12-2013, 03:23 AM
If the poster wants to invest then I recommend the mitras :) problem solved!

Myka
05-12-2013, 03:28 AM
You can disagree, I don't mind. It would be a pretty boring world if we all agreed. :p

I don't think buying T5s is cheaping out on equipment. If someone really has the money burning a hole in the pocket spend it on a Bubble King skimmer instead of LED lighting - that will pay off better for a newbie in the end than some fancy schmancy lighting setup. I seem to remember SOMEONE's (looking at you fishytime) beautiful SPS tank that was lit by T5s. :lol:

Considering the average reef hobbyist has been in the hobby for 18 months it is safe to say that the average reef hobbyist jumps ship before ever doing too much. I don't see why a newbie should spend thousands of dollars on lighting with a high risk of not being in the hobby 2 years down the road.

I have T5s on my LPS/Zoa tank, and I have zero interest in "upgrading" to LEDs on that tank. There is no reason as there would be very limited electrical savings, and a few bulbs a year...whoopdedo. I've been on the fence for the last 6 months thinking about buying a couple Mitras for my SPS tank, but I haven't seen an LED lit SPS tank yet that has the same the results (mainly growth, also color) as halides.

The cost of replacing bulbs is about the same as the cost of salt over a year...really not that significant. The reefer will likely spend much more money on livestock. So all this LED money savings yipyap really doesn't interest me. I'm interested in real life results. I couldn't care less about the extra $200 a year I spend on my halides when I just spent more than that today on one single coral. ;) The argment makes no sense to me.

I don't think LEDs are the be all end all, neither are halides nor T5s. Different lights for different situations. :)

monocus
05-12-2013, 04:34 AM
if you want to check out various leds i have everything from vertex ilumina to diy s.-7 different types,all at various costs.i can even use my par meter to show you the various pars on each system

WarDog
05-12-2013, 07:43 AM
I have found that this is a very hot topic in reefing circles since the introduction of LED's a few years ago. I have always run fluorescents over my freshwater tanks and never had the need to change. Always got good results with colours and plant growth...

but the saltwater game is different.

My lighting budget for this build is about $1000. That does not mean I want to spend that much, but will, to ensure a healthy tank. Probably the single most expensive piece of hardware... next to the MP40 I got for Xmas.

I've somewhat decided on a fixture for each option:

1) Aqua Medic OceanLight T5 HO 8x39W - Retails for about $520 without bulbs.

2) Hamilton Tech 3' Cebu Sun- 1 Metal Halide & 4-39W HO Actinic T5 System (175W 14K, Electronic Ballast) - Retails for $580... with bulbs... so this is cheaper than the T5 fixture.

3) Haven't quite decided on a LED fixture but I do really like a bit about all of them. However, 2 of the higher end fixtures is a little bit over my budget, like 2 Radion Pro's. 36" tank remember.

4) Reef LED Lights DIY 24" with a selection of the LED's I want. Probably could build this for under $800. Although electronics have never been my strong point.

Thanks to everyone for your input, please keep the comments coming. I still have a few months before I need to buy a light.

Myka
05-12-2013, 01:16 PM
PFO was the first to offer a "high-end" fixture touting LEDs as the primary light source in 2004 I believe it was. The only thing high-end about those fixtures was the price, and that ended up being a big fail which ultimately led to bankruptcy for PFO. As far as I know, PFO still carries the broad patent and collects royalties from all the manufacturers we are buying from now. Not a bad deal in the long run.

Anyway...

Does your 65 have a center brace? If so, a single halide will create a terrible shadow.

My LPS/Zoa reef is 36x18x18" and I have to keep low PAR bulbs in the 4x39 watt fixture or I will bleach several of the LPS. Two bulbs run for 12 hours and the other two only run for 4 hours. LPS really don't need a lot of light, but many do need a lot of time to acclimate to high lighting situations. Many of my LPS used to reside in my 90-gallon tank (24" deep) where they had 2x250 watt halides. I was always cramming the LPS into the low(er) light areas and always fighting bleaching where the halides got them too much. I finally gave up and gave them a low light tank of their own. Keeping LPS/softies in a different tank than SPS is much, much easier than trying to keep them both in the same tank. Lots of people keep LPS under halides successfully, but my point is that it can actually be done easier with less light (less electricity). Another thing to think about is that SPS grow quite fast (so do many softies), and LPS generally grow slowly in comparison. There are definitely significant exceptions on both sides. My point is, fast growing SPS will be growing out of your 65-gallon tank in no time, and if SPS is really where you end up then chances are you will be looking at an upgrade when the bug really starts to get you.

For all these reasons, and all the ones I've already listed I think you should keep this tank with the KISS method (keep it simple silly) and see where your reef dreams take you. What you plan now tends to change over time. 5 years ago I said I never wanted a "high maintenance SPS tank" ever again, and look where I am now! If you stick with LPS and softies then a 6x39 watt T5 fixture could keep you quite happy for years and years and years (and you could place SPS at the top too if you wanted). If you really get into SPS you could keep the 65 the way it is and buy a second tank for an SPS tank where you could go hardware silly. I think in the next 2 years of reef keeping you're going to learn a lot, and you will get preferences that you will want to put into your next tank. Newbies tend to either get out of the hobby completely or upgrade within the first year or two.

I would also suggest that if you go T5 or halides you look in the classifieds as there are lots of good deals floating around and all you miss is a warranty. On all my lighting systems, the only pieces I bought new are the electronic ballasts for my halides because I couldn't find any used ones and I got a good Boxing Day deal. :lol: I wouldn't buy LEDs used though - they still have too many hiccups and are too expensive to not have a warranty.

Aquattro
05-12-2013, 01:57 PM
Anyway...



Chatty today, aren't we?? :)

I agree, if I were setting up a new tank that size, for those corals, I'd go T5. You can get great color, great growth and they're easy. Cost of bulbs? pfft, whatever, as you said, it's the cost of a coral. You can find a nice used unit for a couple hundred bucks. Spend the rest of the budget on filling the tank. A 65g with a Mitras and no corals is gonna look like crap :)
MH "may" introduce heat issues you don't need to deal with and for softies and LPS, a bit overkill.

Myka
05-12-2013, 02:01 PM
I'm always chatty Brad. :D

Reef Pilot
05-12-2013, 02:29 PM
Well, if you have been doing FW for 30 years, I would not call you a total noob. You obviously must have an appreciation for good equipment, and control over your tank operation and maintenance. Also, I assume with these years, you have some money to spend (or you wouldn't even consider SW).

I got started (inherited a SW tank with a new house) with SW about 3 years ago, after only FW experience many years ago. The tank had T5's in a built-in (but vented) canopy. The tank was actually a mess (although not knowing any better then, still looked good to me), and it took me a long time to clean up the algae and other unwanted nutrients in the tank.

I didn't like the T5's right from the beginning. There was a lot of heat, and the bulbs needed replacing. I also had no control (other than a timer) over the lighting and intensity, or colour. Had to buy different bulbs (actinics, etc), just to get a better look, But I was never satisfied, and had to keep spending money with them.

I put up with the T5's for a year, and then bought 3 Radions (Gen 1) to replace the T5's. They were definitely very expensive at the time, but I sure liked them, with the total control, and how good they made my tank look.

Then I set up a 2nd tank downstairs (yes, SW can be addictive), and initially moved my old T5's into that canopy. Again, same problems with heat and other issues. Shortly thereafter, the Radion Gen 2's came out and I sprang for 3 more (and another Gen 1 for a frag tank). And the price was now a lot more reasonable, too. I moved the original Gen 1's to my new downstairs tank, and installed the new Gen 2's into my original main display tank.

I couldn't be happier with that decision and choice. Because the Radions are wireless (to each other) I can now control and adjust all the lighting in my house (individually or group them any way you want) from a single laptop USB connection,... very, very, convenient.

And they all have more intensity than I can use so far. I am now growing SPS under the Gen 2's, and still have not raised the intensity above 90%. They have coloured up beautifully, and growing very well (thick and fast). The downstairs tank with the Gen 1's is still only at 50% and softies and LPS doing great with them.

I know there are still newer and cheaper LEDs coming on the market. I can't speak for them, but seems like lots of choices, that's for sure. As for the more expensive Radion Pros, or GHL Mitras, they sound like overkill to me. But if you got the money,... what the heck.

Good luck with your decision, and hope you enjoy the challenge and rewards with the SW and reef keeping.

WarDog
05-12-2013, 07:56 PM
Anyway...

Does your 65 have a center brace? If so, a single halide will create a terrible shadow.



Yes it does and I thought this may be an issue for a single halide.
Lots to think about Myka, thank you for all that great input. I think you are correct in that I probably would want a 2nd tank down the road specifically for SPS. Just want to make the correct purchase now rather than finding out the hard way I bought the wrong fixture for my needs. Do you think 6x39w T5's are enough?

WarDog
05-12-2013, 08:05 PM
Well, if you have been doing FW for 30 years, I would not call you a total noob. You obviously must have an appreciation for good equipment, and control over your tank operation and maintenance. Also, I assume with these years, you have some money to spend (or you wouldn't even consider SW).



Haha, thanks Reef Pilot. Only a noob to salt and all it's 'specialized' equipment. As someone who does appreciate good equipment and total control I have seriously considered high end LED's. It's just the daily advancement of the technology and the price that scares me. I know LED's are the future... but I'm not convinced I should make that commitment yet.

lastlight
05-12-2013, 09:24 PM
Everyone has their tipping point. I'm a late adopter as well but so far I'm totally happy with leaving the older lighting technology behind.

monkE
05-12-2013, 10:06 PM
i recently did my first salty setup and I decided that i wanted to go with the cheaper LED system. I purchased a 24" fixutre with controller for $200 from frank at a.Q.LED http://www.aq-led.com/ and I'm super happy with it. I wanted something that wouldn't limit my tank as I progressed in the hobby and this was a way of doing that without breaking the bank.

Myka
05-12-2013, 10:53 PM
Just want to make the correct purchase now rather than finding out the hard way I bought the wrong fixture for my needs. Do you think 6x39w T5's are enough?

I don't know if there is a "wrong" fixture provided you buy one of the known brands regardless of which type of lighting you go for. I think halides would probably be somewhat "wrong" just because that is a lot of heat for a small tank to deal with.

6x39 watt T5s would be enough - if you had 8 there wouldn't be any room to feed the fish! :lol: I would use 8 over a 24" wide tank. Even with 6 you will find corals that want to be on the sand. 24" deep is the deepest I ever recommend T5s for - deeper tanks need halides or really good LEDs to penetrate.

If you decide to go with LEDs (which I don't think is a bad idea, just not one I would make in your situation) I would suggest you remove the center brace and install a eurobrace if the side glass thickness requires it (ask a tank builder). That way if you choose one of the modular LED fixtures that have better spread (like Radion or Mitras) you could get away with one fixture over the tank. The ends will definitely be a bit shaded, but you can always find corals that prefer those areas or leave the ends open sand for swimming area. A pyramid-type rock formation would look pretty cool under a single modular LED and would provide all sorts of light conditions. Purchasing two of these fixtures for a 36" tank seems a waste to me...I'd be getting a 48" tank to fit the lights. :mrgreen:

Don't forget, a good skimmer will knock you back $300-800 depending how nuts you go in that category. All this will seem cheap when you start forking over $100 bills to your LFS a few at a time when you go coral shopping. :p Super nice LPS are super expensive. SPS and softies are cheaper. My LPS tank is a humble 50-gallon for a reason - it puts a spending cap on things.

Phil
05-18-2013, 02:44 AM
Just set up two new AI sols blue on my 48" tank and I love them. After reading a lot of reviews I was questioning the coverage of them but after setting them up I'm totally happy with them and the coverage is great

H2o2
05-18-2013, 04:40 AM
Just have a peek at Reef supply canada and check out the IT2080 for that size of tank ,I have the IT2040 over my frag tank and think its great at a good price

Magma
05-18-2013, 08:58 PM
Just my $0.02 but I when I was ready to start my upgrade to a 72x20x20 tank Lighting was the thing holding me up. I read up on various different fixtures for the 6' I needed to cover and when it came down to it I wanted something with the ability to grow all kinds of corals.

But at the same time not costing me a fortune to upkeep (both electrically and bulb replacement etc).

After searching for a good 4 months I found a thread on another community about the Evergrow D120 units. Now at first I was thinking it seemed to good to be a true, a LED unit for 180$ that could grow coral? That was until I saw people who have been using the 1st generation ones (just blue and white leds) over there tanks for over a year. The Corals looked AMAZING they reported noticeable growth within the first few months and even better coloring than previously when under MH and T5's.

I am a firm believer that the hobby doesn't have to cost you thousands to get results you want. Especially when it comes to LED lighting. LED's are cheap to make and the upkeep is almost none. Plus with the ability to dim the LED's you can get the effect you want without using 4 different colored bulbs over your tank. I would say tho with the ability to dim LED's and setup the colour ratio it could also be a problem if the corals are not getting enough of one colour. Enough rope to choke yourself as they say.

I would look into the Evergrow Units be it the D120 series or the more expensive IT series both are great fixtures at a great price. But this is just my opinion and im sure someone will hate the fact that im promoting cheap LED units. Do your own research and check out all the options for your needs.

I purchased mine from Nick at reefsupplycanada and I have to say his customer service is amazing.

http://www.reefsupplycanada.com/evergrow-led-lighting/